Welcome And Rome To Home

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Hi, I'm Alexa.

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And I'm Rory. And together we are the Romies. We're a husband-wife duo and longtime travelers who believe travel isn't just about where you go. It's about how it shapes the way you live when you get home.

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On the Roamies Podcast, we explore where to travel, how to travel, and why to travel. Through our lens of creativity, wellness, and everyday life.

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We're calling it this season Rome to Home. As we travel near and far, we're sharing the ways we bring inspiration home. Through food, daily rituals, business and design ideas, and the renovation of our historic picture upward.

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It's all about making travel tangible, livable, and meaningful long after the trip ends.

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So whether you're planning your next adventure or reimagining the life you're building at home, you're in the right place.

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Now, let's get into today's episode. Thank

Minimalism To Maximize Happy

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you so much for joining us. This episode is M is for Minimalism. We're going to be talking about minimalizing your travel life and your home life so that you can maximize the happy in your life. And we want to give a big thank you to the New Mexico Department of Agriculture and their logo program for supporting us on this episode as well as Gilly Loco. You are going to learn all about Gilly Loco later in the episode. So we're not going to fully give it away right this minute, but you're going to hear all about that. And so we're just really excited to dive into the idea of minimalism on this episode. I am a person who, like, I walk into the container store. I don't know if y'all have been to one of those, but it is like I walk in and I just like my heart feels so happy. And it's like this happy place where everything is organized and it gives you tools to be organized and have everything in its place and color-coordinate and all these things. And my brain doesn't work that way, but in my but my heart wants to be that way. And so my whole life I've been reading organizing books and simplifier life books and all of these things. And my brain is not wired in a simple way. And so I feel like I'm constantly trying to utilize tools that will help the way my brain works to function in this world and to help support the life that I want to live. And minimalism is such a great tool that can make travel easy. It makes your home life easy, but when that is going, then makes travel easy and happy and fun and all that. So, and it can start all in your home.

Katie's Clutter Wake-Up Moment

SPEAKER_04 2:39

So we're going to discuss how to minimize for your roaming and your home today because we have a very cool, awesome guest, Katie Joy Wells. And so she's going to bring her inspiration. So she's written this wonderful book, Making Home Your Happy Place, which I love because we did H's for Happy Place earlier. So we'll put a link to that in the show notes so you guys can reference that too. But with our from Rome to home angle, we're going to skew a little bit more towards how to bring the minimalized travel mindset. A minimalized home is going to help smooth out that from Rome to home process when we are having to settle back in after traveling, when we're getting ready for the next trip and all of that. So we have with us Katie Joy Wells. Katie, thank you so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 3:26

I I'm so excited to chat with you. It's not every day I get to come hang out with like travel people, people. I can't even speak. I'm so excited. And I love to travel and I love decluttering and minimalism. And it's just there's so many parallels, and I just can't wait to chat.

SPEAKER_04 3:42

So cool. Well, for those who are new to meeting you, I would love to just um have you give us a quick little background on you have you have this awesome book that you've written, but you also have a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

So Yeah, so many years later, the podcast and the book, right? But I think like a lot of us, it doesn't always start that way. I wasn't born organized. I wasn't born with like just being amazing at decluttering and like I'm a minimalist out of the womb. My story starts back when my kids are now nine and eleven, but my oldest was about two years old, and I was working full time, and I remember I had come home at the end of a busy day, and I opened my front door, walked into my house, and just felt immediately stressed out. I saw the piles, the toys, the dishes, everything I had left, the clutter everywhere. And this was just so stressful for me. And instead of being able to play with him or read with him, you know, I remember he came up to me and kept asking me, Mommy, will you play? And because of having to manage all of these piles and clutter and chores and tasks, I was constantly telling my son no. And I was really this no mom and I hated it because I don't think any of us set out to have kids and to be like, oh yeah, it feels like I follow them around and clean up after them all day. Like we we envision ourselves like reading and playing and saying yes. And I was this no stressed out mom. And this particular moment, I think it was like his eighth time asking me between like five and eight p.m. mommy. And he said, Will you play trains with me? And I, before he even got the question out, I said no again. And his face, Alexa, just crumpled in a way where it hit my soul. And I just it still brings tears to my eyes. I just burst into tears and I'm like, oh my gosh. Like I've become it's my default saying no to my kids all the time. And I really, I was so resentful. And I realized this was one of the moments in my life. I think we all have these moments. Like, clutter isn't just stuff. Yes, a home will always have tasks to do. There's always gonna be laundry, there's always gonna be messes to clean up, but the volume of stuff in my house doesn't need to be there. I just thought it was the default. Like it's just the way I live, it's just the way I learned how to buy and grow up and keep. And I really recognize in this moment, clutter isn't it's not passive. It's not just like kind of stressful and kind of annoying. It's stealing our time, our energy, our happiness, our ability to be the people we want to be. A lot of people, I'm sure, listen to your podcast because traveling not only is so much fun, but like what what are we more likely to be traveling than at home? I think present, present in the moment, open to experiences because we have the capacity, because we don't have all these distractions. Right.

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And I didn't want to live my life. Yes. Yeah.

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I was tired of living my life where I was like, I'll be happy for one week of the year when we're outside of the house, you know? Yeah. Because my happy place was like a lake house. And I think a lot of us can feel and think of the happy place. And I'm like, how can I make my home my happy place? It doesn't have to be the way I think it has to. And so this was really the start of my own journey, trying all the methods, the marathon, the Marie Kondo. And I just realized that none of them really tackled so much of the mindset that I know it sounds kind of boring, but it's just a part of it, right? Yes, container store is amazing. I love bins, I love labels, but for so many of us, we kind of start in the wrong area. We start with the tools instead of like, how do I find the time? Why do I have clutter to begin with? And it's not that you need to do journaling and all kinds of stuff like that, but it's a big piece of it. And I realized, you know, clutter is a symptom. And I my background as a career is holistic wellness. And I'm trained to look for the roots of things. Like, what's the root cause? And no one was asked, no one was looking for the root cause. It was just about, okay, you clean it up on the backside, but then my house would be a disaster two days or two months later. There's and it's so nuanced and layered. And so that's what led to me creating holistic decluttering and really, yes, we're still talking about the practical stuff that's important, but also the emotions, mindsets, and beliefs and habits that we often inherit from culture, our personal experiences, our loved ones that cause us to have clutter to begin with. If we never tackle those, it's kind of like chopping weeds in your garden at the ground level. Your garden's gonna look good for a day or two, honey, but a two days later we know what's gonna happen. We've all experienced this in our homes. And so it's really implementing all those things so you can get sustainable long-term progress and ultimately more of what we want at home. Happiness, presence, time to hang out, all those things, travel, whatever we want.

SPEAKER_04 8:13

Yeah. I want to interject real quick because you mentioned it doesn't require all of this journaling and stuff like that. And that was one of the refreshing things that I found in your book was that I thought, okay, she's starting with mindset, which I feel like clutter and like if the folks who struggle with being overweight and maybe even budget issues in my mind, in all of these areas of your life, you're having to deal with restraints. And you even address this like there's a boundary. There's a boundary to put these things in. And so, like our bodies have a boundary and our budgets have a boundary. And so, even if your home is all perfect and wonderful, even what we talk about today might apply to different areas anyway. It all starts with mindset. And so I love that that's where you go with this, and that at the same time you make it not feel so daunting and like, well, gosh, I'm just gonna have to sit alone with myself if I don't have a drawn-out session where I'm crying and dealing with all of these things. That's really gonna get me to the source, and then I'll know my why, and then I can do all these things. Like you make it so not this overwhelming thing. You're like, hey, you don't have to go do all of that. Let's just, let's just work on this part of your mindset. And you make it a tangible, easy thing. And I really appreciated that section in your book that's right off the get-go. You touched on that, but I just wanted to understand that yes, I thank you.

SPEAKER_03 9:41

Well, thank you. Well, that's exactly what I wanted to do. You know, this process is overwhelming for most people, not only because of the volume in our homes, but everyone's busy. Uh, no one has endless amounts of time. Even if you're not working currently, it's like my my parents, my friends who are at home with their kids. I mean, the day flies by, and I had a short period of time where I experienced that. And you get to the end of the day, you're like, what happened? Where'd the day go? Yes. Um, and you don't need to quit your job or be an empty nester. Even then, my empty nester friends are also very busy. I'm like, you can fit it into your lifestyle, not the other way around. I think a lot of us were just taught it has to look a certain way and it doesn't. And I and it's really just, you know, marrying these really helpful psychological principles that is part of it, that is the reality, and doing it in a really uh sustainable fashion. So I appreciate that feedback for sure.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Yeah. Well, now your podcast. So you have this book, Making Home Your Happy Place. We'll put links to that in the show notes. We're also gonna put a link to your podcast in the show notes. Your podcast is called The Maximize Minimalist, which is so fun. So that totally love, I love that with our Emma is for minimalism episode. Uh, I'd love to hear just kind of like what got you into starting a podcast and maybe just share with folks things you share in your podcast so they can be following you and listening to you there.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Yeah, for sure. Well, minimalism, I will say to me, when I was at my lowest before I had started creating the holistic decluttering, I was like, I think I need to go like so the pendulum has to swing so far the other way in order for me to like make progress. And I very quickly realized that minimalism, at least a lot of like what you see online or back then, this is like 06, 07, 08, 2010s, was very much like, if you want to be a minimalist, you can only have five pairs of shoes. You have to live in a concrete house, everything has to be white. And I'm like, but I have kids and I have cats. Uh, you know, and it was very much a it was very much a numbers game. And I really resented that. Any minimalism forum, and it I think it's changed at the time, but I realized how is this any different from like people who are striving to like, you know, get the name brand stuff? You're putting like it, it's all for the wrong reason. At the end of the day, minimalism to me, when I was coming up with this podcast and really the concept is a vehicle. And decluttering is a big piece that like it, it it drives the vehicle once the car and one's how you keep it moving. And so I wanted to drive to more presence, more happiness, more contentment, more experiences in life, more time, more energy, better relationships. That's where I wanted to drive my car. There's a lot of ways we can get there, right? Budgeting, uh, decluttering, taking care of our health in all shapes and forms. You know what I'm saying? And so it was just what I needed to do. And so that's really my definition. Minimalism is a vehicle that gets you, it can get you wherever you want to go, I think, in life. It's one way to do it. And so for me, it's not a numbers game. But anyway, all that to say, I spent a lot of time being like, well, no, my minimalism's different. You can have however many pairs of shoes you want. Everyone's got their thing. But I really wanted it to be about how you can maximize your life through the means of obviously living with less. And my show, obviously, we talk about a lot of decluttering, practical, a lot of holistic decluttering tips and strategies, but I have people coming on in all types of areas: parenting, wellness, working out, mental health. I mean, I have so many different experts, and it's really such a treat to learn from these experts because I never pretend to be someone who knows it all and has it all together. I'm very much a human being. And I think I, you know, I'll do podcasts. Hey, I messed up. I bought this thing. I never wear it. What do I do with it? How do I grapple with that? Right. And I have these inner conversations out loud on the podcast and with my clients all the time. And that's what's I think most helpful for people to learn from. Yeah, great. Okay, podcast. Podcast started in 2019. I think same as yours. So and then book book came out this year. Yeah, but I never set out to set uh write a book. That was never a goal of mine. It was just very much a God thing and it it just worked out so beautifully. Love it. Very cool.

Packing Light Without Losing Style

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Because our podcast is centered around inspiration and travel, can we transition into this whole travel space? Minimalism is our tool, right? So, how does it make travel easier?

SPEAKER_03 13:54

I think in so many ways, I just got back. My family of four and I just got back from England.

SPEAKER_04 13:59

By the way, it was so fun because when I was working on some pre-work for today's episode, M is from Minimalism. I'm finding you. And that's when you were in Bath and promoting and sharing your photos from Bath. And I was like, oh my gosh, it's so fun. So we'll put the Bath episode too in the show. I loved that connection that that just is where you quote unquote happened to be when I was looking ahead to this M episode.

SPEAKER_03 14:25

So it was really fun. Yeah. We spent two weeks in England, some in London, some in Bath, some in the Cotswolds. And I always travel with a carry-on now. But I mean, years ago, I would take a 50-pound checked bag for like a weekend trip and not knocking you. Again, if that's your thing and you don't want to simplify that, don't do it. But I just I hated always overpacking, lugging that thing around, losing my luggage. And so I think, you know, setting up the means to travel, knowing where everything in my house is, knowing the things, the wardrobe items, the toiletries, everything you need to take with you, knowing what works the hardest for me, what I'm most comfortable in, and where everything lives helps me pack so, so much. One of my favorite things is I keep a log of everything I pack for each trip. And you're probably similar. Whether I leave for a week or 30 days, I pack only a carry-on. That's my physical boundary. At first, that felt very restrictive, but again, with Pinterest, I'm aging myself here. You can really see that even though you might not pack quote unquote that much, you can make literally hundreds of different outfits by just tweaking a few different things. And I think that was really eye-opening for me. And we can talk about kind of scarcity mindset later on because, like, what if I need this? Or what if I'm cold, or what if I don't, you know, like that type of mindset adds clutter to your house and also clutter to your traveling. But those are just some really simple ways. And then of course, we've all experienced the unpacking process, which even if you don't pack quote unquote a lot, it can still feel like a little mini-bomb went off in your house. Yes. So I so I do think that's the reality. I think people think, well, if I, you know, am a minimalist and I get home, it means I don't have messes. We need to like disrupt that. That's not that's not true. So we are really good at dividing and conquering my husband and I, whether it's we're getting back from a camping trip, whether, whether we're getting back from a trip to Europe, uh, just dividing and conquering, unpacking, and we like to knock that out in like an hour or two, depending on our schedule, if we have to get back to work. And then of course, traveling with us is so much easier when you're there. Rick Steves, I followed him for years. I adore him. I just remember one of his quotes was like, you will never regret like packing less. Like it allows you to focus on the task at hand, which is traveling and being present, not like where's my luggage or where are my goggles or where's my hiking shoes, right? Digging through. And that made so much sense to me. And I thought, well, why don't we also apply that towards our home? If it, if it helps you at home, it's gonna help you when you travel too. Right.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

Having a more minimalist mindset at home.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yes. Overpacking takes away from your experiences. And he just said, just pack light, pack light, pack light. He very much is like he travels with a backpack a lot. Yeah.

unknown 17:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:04

I think that's amazing. I have traveled with a backpack. To me, that's like, I don't want to get that far in because laundry obviously has a big, big part to how much you pack. But I think it's just the reality of it's a distraction. Even if those things can be helpful, t-shirts. I'm not saying you're packing clutter and like things you don't need. It's just one more thing you have to manage, one more thing you have to pack, unpack, repack. And so I think sometimes we underestimate the time and distraction that even quote unquote good things or non-clutter can take away from a great experience like traveling. And let's be real, traveling isn't all unicorns and rainbows. It can be stressful. We have to make trains, we have to maybe learn another language, uh, we have to, you know, manage the kids and logistics and get tickets and all these things. So I think it's just one less thing to kind of bring the stress level down when we can have less stuff and less bags to bring and wait. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

100%. Even financially, it helps a lot, right? You're you're not having to pay for fees. It's more efficient with your time. You're not having to wait at baggage claim. So yeah, even on a road trip, the less you have in your car is also helpful.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

It's it's always helpful. Yeah. I think sometimes too, sometimes we think, well, I can't do that, or I have kids, but you you have to play to your season, you know, and you have to play very much to your reality. I think a lot of us sometimes feel like we have to pack for this life that isn't ours. Maybe someone, maybe an influencer or an expert you see online, and we either say, Well, I can't do that, or we think like, oh, that's gonna be really hard. And we attempt and it just it kind of falls flat. I think we all have to remember it's just about progress, not perfection. So if you want to pack try packing less, you don't have to go from a checked bag to a carry-on. Maybe you go, maybe you just split a checked bag with a family member. I don't know, or just try to take less shoes, pick one category to like challenge yourself. Okay, can I get away with five pairs of shoes instead of the normal eight that I take? I think it's really just about baby steps versus like it has to be so black and white.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah. And that's also part of your approach and within your book talking about home. Like, let's let's not feel like it has to be this overwhelming thing. Let's change a little mindset and let's change one little thing and get used to that. So thank you. That's cool.

Unpacking Without The Mental "Shoulds"

SPEAKER_04 19:21

I feel like, and you touched on this, but coming from even last night, Rory and I we had a gig in Nashville last night, and then we traveled to Kentucky, and I found myself spending, and all we did, like we were only in Nashville for a day or two. But because it's a concert, we had a little bit more, you know, your little bit more space is taken up with clothing or shoes. But I think I had about an hour of my time just unpacking that and trying to get that back into order and stuff like that. And and I was just like, I'm just a mess. Like, it shouldn't take this long because I just took a backpack, I took two little backpacks. And like, you know, it shouldn't take that long to do to get my life in order and get my bag in order.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

Okay, well, I might I might challenge you on that. Why shouldn't it take an hour? I think our expectation of what it should look like can be really dramatically skewed. And I think a lot of us humans tend to underestimate or overestimate like the time it takes for things. For example, I used to heavily procrastinate on putting laundry away. Finally, one day I was like, I'm gonna time myself. What's the hang up? I would delay for weeks putting these small piles of laundry away. Right. And it and I timed myself, it was like 90 seconds. And I was like, okay, it's not about the time. It's not about the time. It's about, for me at the time, when we don't have clear homes for things, it makes it harder to do what we want to do. My my closet looked like a tornado that literally went through it. I had clothes everywhere. And so that makes that adds friction to the steps because it's like, well, I don't know where to put it. So then your brain's like, so why even start the task? All that to say, sometimes we overestimate. It can go either way, right? But the whole point, what I'm saying is I I could look at your photos or you could send me videos of the process you go through. But no matter how little or how much you take, there's always gonna be that like it you do have to unpack. It does take several steps because you have all these different categories of things: clothing, tech gear, accessories, office. It's not just like, oh, it's only clothes and they go into the wash, and then like I come back in 30 minutes when the wash is done and put it in the dryer. Right. So I I think, yes, maybe we could make that more effective and optimize that. And I think sometimes just our expectation gets skewed. I'm not saying it, you know what I'm saying? And so sometimes I think we can all be a little too hard on ourselves. Like it shouldn't take this long. Well, how long should it take? Why should it take that long? Sometimes the stories we tell ourselves about all these things. You know, they they really matter. And sometimes in life, whether it's home or travel, I've had to be like, well, that's not actually true. It can still take me two to three hours for our family of four to unpack and kind of reset. And I could tell myself, well, it shouldn't take that long. Well, it takes me. I could do things in another order. I could read 18 books on how to unpack the right way and shave off 30 minutes. But do I care that much? No, I don't care about optimizing that. So I'm kind of playing both sides here. But I think it's important to recognize, like, well, can we optimize? Sure. But should it take that long? I don't know. Why not? I don't think that's so bad. Great. So now you got some mental clutter off your plate. You don't have to read books on how to unpack effectively if you don't want to. You know what I'm saying? The mental clutter side of things on task management, home management. I should, it should look like this. I should enjoy this, whatever. It's a lot. It's a lot for people. And so it's always really special, I think, to be able to declutter some of these stories, or I should, you know, we should all over ourselves. It's so we gain just as much freedom from releasing some of that mental clutter as we do the physical clutter. And I think that's where so much, that's really where things start cracking open and a lot of beauty happens for ourselves because that thing it hangs over us. And I'm am I saying you're haunted and annoyed by that thought every day? No, but as much as you travel to constantly tell yourself, well, this shouldn't take so long. That's frustrating, right? Right. Right. And to chick check yourself next time and be like, well, it's okay that it does. Just know that it takes this long. And you know, it's okay. It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Yeah. Okay. Mindset is number one, like you're saying, but any other little systems or tips that you have run across that do help that process and speed it up that you're talking and coming home?

SPEAKER_03 23:57

I

Give Everything A Clear Home

SPEAKER_03 23:58

really already hinted at it. Yeah. If you don't have clear homes for things, it adds friction. I can't stress that enough. Once I decluttered my closet in a fashion where it was like, okay, there are six shirts missing. They're in the wash. Did I did not struggle with procrastination anymore about putting laundry away because it was easy to do. So just remember the less steps it takes to do something, the more likely you are to do it. So, of course, on the backside, you might be like, well, Katie, I haven't decluttered. I have all this laundry facing. Use that opportunity. I think when we get home from travel, no one wants to do an overwhelming marathon declutter session. And I don't think anyone needs to to make progress. And you know this because you read the book. But I think it's important to just in seconds walk into our closet. I think a lot of us feel the weight and volume of our things the second we get home from travel because we were living without them for a weekend, for a week, for a month, whatever. And we were typically living with things that we took with us very intentionally for the most part that worked really, really hard for us. So start looking at your things that aren't working hard for you versus this passive thing and get go, okay, get rid of these five shirts. I haven't worn them in 12 months. If you need mindset hacks on that, get the book, listen to the show or whatever. Right. But it makes it so much easier to put things away. And also it gives you a great kind of perception to audit things. Cause I think a lot of us, again, we feel that burden when we walk through our doors. It's an unpleasant feeling. Right. So the categories you're unpacking, whether it's your kids' clothes, whether it's tech gear, if there's not a home for that and it's a frustrating pain point for every time you get home or it's overflowing, take five minutes. Get rid of the easy, low-hanging fruit. It's gonna help you on a day-to-day for most of us from here on out, but also the future traveling. Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:47

I think too, and Rory is really good at this, but sometimes the bag is the place to store those things. They're things I use every day and that I need every day. And so even when I'm traveling, I'm still needing those. So, anyways, Rory is really, really good at this. So much so that if I need a toiletry, I know exactly where to go into his toiletry bag. You know, sometimes I need to borrow something that is not, doesn't make sense for me to carry it, but I know he has it. And so I'll go to his toiletry bag. I know exactly I'm gonna get his tweezers from here. I'm gonna find them there. I need a sharpie. I'm gonna go to Rory's backpack in this front pocket, and I'm gonna be able to pull out a sharpie because I know he has it. He keeps a lot in his backpack, and so a lot of things too are finding a home because especially when you're traveling so much, your suitcase is your home. That's your home away from home. That's the square space you have. And so it's okay, I think, that you don't it doesn't have to be put like it being put away means that it stays in your bag. Yes, absolutely. I just got the new bag. We did uh podcast earlier around only travel, and so now I have these really cool trilogy backpack and and it's it's a cool travel set. And so I I'm gonna do this with this outer pack of I it's right here. That's I keep pointing over there. But I'm still kind of finding what's my natural place that I want to go for these things.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 27:18

And then like, okay, so I my chapstick could go in this little pocket, but maybe I want to put it in this little pocket. Or do I keep finding myself going for that, you know? And even with like, I think I've talked about this in a previous episode, but like a a slip for for a skirt, you know, I ended up keeping forever a slip in my suitcase because I was finding that I needed it more in my travel, and it was something that I kept forgetting at home. And so when I was at home and I needed it, its place was my suitcase. In your suitcase. I love that. And then that's where I go to get it. And then it goes back in the suitcase because that's its place. And then when I'm traveling, then I'm no longer stressed that I forgot my slip and I'm gonna be on stage and not have a slip on.

SPEAKER_03 28:06

Yes. So this is this is such a great example, too, of designing your physical environment for your actual lifestyle. You know, nowhere did you probably read on a travel blog, keep a slip that's stored in your suitcase, right? But you made it work because of how you operate and what you tend, like you noticed a pattern, which was a problem. I'm forgetting this and I need it. And so the solution instead became like, let's just store it in there. And I always know when I'm traveling, I have it. And I think that is really when organization systems and tools really shine the most for all of us. Yes, we can like, of course, copy and paste from other people in some sense, but for like the really effective ones, they're always custom to like how our brains operate and our actual needs. I was reminded of one of my favorite, I don't like the word hack, but we'll call it a hack. It's

The Always-Ready Toiletry Bag

SPEAKER_03 28:56

I think if you travel more than twice a year, and I travel for work, weekends, camping, whatever, this is so effective. I have an always ready travel bag. So it has my essential toiletries and just everything. So for so I don't have to constantly repack it. I keep inventory after a trip, but it's always ready. Sometimes I'll add a couple makeup items in it. I don't really wear a ton of makeup, but it's it's just always ready. So, like my razor, my shampoo, a conditioner, because I am not one that can use the hotel stuff because it always messes my hair up. You know, makeup wipes because why do they never have makeup wipes at hotels? Just little travel size things. Like I said, a couple of lotions I might have bought, so I have it in my normal section, but it's just it reduces so much decision fatigue and mental clutter. And I was tired of packing, unpacking, packing, unpacking. I mean, sometimes multiple weeks at a time. And it became a pattern and a frustration point. And I had decided to solve it through an organization tool. That's another similar example. So I think it's really just evaluating those patterns and saying, can I solve this through decluttering or through organizing or through an organizing organizing tool or system? And when we can, it's always super fun. We are this is the stuff we tell our friends and like on podcasts, like try this, you know?

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Right, exactly. A lot of times for me, especially lately, a lot of the unpacking includes packing for the next trip. Yes, exactly. I'm also preparing for the next one. It's like, okay, so what's the next trip? Are we just going to see family? Are we doing a performance or podcast? Are we doing something? What do I need? Okay, this can stay in the suitcase. This needs to be washed and then go back to the suitcase, you know, that kind of thing. And so a lot of times for me, uh, the unpacking is also the prepping for the phase. But there's also things like when we're home, that's that's when you have to cram in all of our doctor appointments, maybe our hair appointment, or maybe uh getting in coffee with friends. All of that has to kind of be crammed in to the few days that you're home. And besides like trying to just like de-stress and have some you time, you know, and do some of your favorite things that you like to do in your hometown or in your home or projects at home that you want to focus on. So all of that, you know, for us, you you have like this short time at home to do like these things. We're trying to renovate our house. What can I, what's the next step for that that I can do on the three days that I'm home next week? My whole adult career has been spending all this time prepping for the trip. Have I rehearsed everything? Do I need to practice this song 60 times because I still don't have it memorized or whatever it is, you know? Like, so it's like, you know, or if I'm speaking, like, do I have that ready? So so it's preparing for whatever that job is, but then it's also preparing the the packing. And then when I leave, is the temperature set? Are the pets taken care of? Are the we're not really plant people because we're always gone, but people who are normal people that have plants or gardens. Like who's gonna mow the who's gonna mow the lawn? So there's also like your house has to still survive while you're gone. Um, do you need to find a house sitter or do you have a pet sitter, whatever? So it's managing all of those things at home and realizing, okay, when I come home, then I'm only gonna have this amount of time for this next thing. So I also have to kind of be preparing for the trip after that because I know I'm only gonna have two days at home to do, you know. So all of that is is part of travel. And so I just felt like that's such a great tie-in with the whole minimalism concept because when your home is minimalized, these things are smoother.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Yeah, you know, my goal with anything, whether it's packing for a trip or just, you know, curating my house is making it so that it supports me versus demands more from me. And it's interesting as you were speaking, Alexa. So one thing I noticed is obviously you travel a lot for work and some, you know, for pleasure too, but for work. But whether we're traveling for work or for pleasure, we're packing these things along with us to help support us in extracting what we need to do or extract from an experience perspective, work or pleasure, versus demand more from us, right? And so I think if you kind of zoom out, and yes, there's so many things we can do to get our home to baseline, empty the fridge out, get your cat sitter, get your plants taken care of, all these things. There's 8,000 things that go in. They're like these invisible labor things that go in in order to leave for a trip. Yep. I totally hear that. Um, you know, if if there's any patterns that have been frustrating to you, you know, look at those on an individual scale. But when you're packing or looking at your house, I think if you take that perspective, how can I create a home that supports me? How can I pack only what I need so that I can actually enjoy being at Six Flags with my kids, so that I can actually get this work done in an effective way, then go home to the hotel with my husband and go out for a dinner and not have like to spend five minutes looking for the right shoes or being mad that the luggage got lost or something at the airport. And that happened to my friends. They lost their luggage for the first four days of their trip to Spain. And it's not even that they overpacked, it's just that they decided to condense a lot of their luggage into one checked bag to take less bags, which felt simple. Right. And it it can be, sure, but unfortunately got lost. So they were like in Spain with re-wearing the same clothes. Talk about minimalist, right? You're just you're sleeping in the same clothes. So they went full on. I loved it. They didn't love it. Um, but you get the idea and all that to say, like just reminding yourself. I think a lot of us feel pressure to like have a capsule wardrobe, pack in a carry-on, have this perfect home, but it's it's not static. That's not the way it is. We create messes. It takes time to unpack as we unpacked on this episode, and that's okay. You know, at the end of the day, if you just remind yourself, why am I doing this? It's so that you can have more time, energy, presence, happiness, contentment, whatever, wherever you are, whether it's your home base or out. And I think that helps kind of give people clarity versus kind of feeling like it has to look a certain way. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

Yeah. I appreciated about your book as well that you did address clarity because I feel like when I don't have clarity, that for me personally, that's the biggest source of my clutter. Um, because I'm not clear on what I want the most in this area. What do I want the most here? Because I want everything.

unknown 35:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 35:48

And and so it's like making those decisions when you want everything. But I think that ties a little bit also into the scarcity mindset you touched base on. Do you want to add anything to that premise of I need to take everything because I'm not gonna have anything when I travel?

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah, I think the reality is a lot of us, for a whole host of reasons, we don't have time to get into our we're we're just conditioned to live in a scarcity mindset. A big piece of that is from our culture and just how we were raised. And that is what it is, but it's always it comes up a lot when we pack, like uh the just in case spiral. Let me add this pair of high heels that I never wear. Let me be a hat person. I'm just gonna have my influencer hat on. I'm like, I never wear this at home, but I'm gonna wear it on the trip. Let me pack my tuba in case I want to play the tuba. Like it's just like we panic and we just add it on.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

I finally have time to play the tuba on my vacant skin.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

Just gonna toss it in just in case. Extreme example, but I'm sure it's happened. And so all that to say, one simple question I think we can use to shift out of that is can I solve this there if needed? I think a lot of us also, a lot of it also comes from like the fantasy version of U-Trap. I used to pack like beach clothes, like cute, like crocheted dresses and like kind of beach wear that I would never wear at home.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Right.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Like matching crop top set. I would never wear that at home, but for whatever reason, I bought it for a trip, packed it for a trip. Then the reality is when the rubber meets the road and I'm going out on the beach, I'm not wearing a crop top. I'm 38 and I don't want to wear crop top. Give me the rest of the four inches of my shirt, please, for all the clothing manufacturers listening. I would love for you to give me that extra four inches that you took off years ago and haven't given given us back. Hello. So frustrating. But it's like being like, do I actually feel good in this? Or am I dressing for a version of myself that doesn't exist? Because it looks great on the influencer. It looks great on the model that, you know, in the ad, but like that's not how I actually dress. So when we pack all these clothes, like the boho version of ourselves that, you know, that might not exist, we're gonna overpack every single time. And this is when we still have stuff like our clothing with the tags on it, and we go, but it's so cute. I don't want to donate it, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_04 38:00

So And the idea of wearing that on a beach is so fun. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 38:05

We we envision ourselves like feeling so good and confident in it. And again, like if Boho was you, you're not gonna have a problem. You're gonna be wearing that stuff in and out, you know, and that and that's great. Um so I just think stick knowing you, knowing what you're most comfortable in. And that also is your style. I think a lot of us think I need a new style, I need a new look or a new vibe for the beach or for a ski trip or for whatever or for travel in general. Especially, I used to get caught up with this in capsule wardrobes. It was like the French girl. Like, here's five, 10 things the French girl always packs. I'm like, well, I want to be a French girl because I want to be seen as chic, right? It's tapping into the emotional aspect. It's the aspiring, like, I want to, I want to get compliments on my clothes. So then I would buy all these new clothes, pack them, and I'd be like, I feel like I'm in a costume. And I think that's a great kind of benchmark. Like, do you feel like yourself in that? Then you shouldn't, you shouldn't buy, you shouldn't take it. And that comes with practice, right? And flexing that consumer muscle and declutter muscle.

SPEAKER_04 39:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

So stop packing for the aspirational version of you, pack for who you actually are, your season, what's comfortable. And then just, you know, if you are worried about being cold, you have layers. Take layers you actually wear. I feel like a lot of us never wear the new stuff because it's itchy. We don't know if we like it yet. So wear stuff that's already doing heavy lifting for you. That's likely the stuff you're gonna be reaching for on vacation, you know?

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Yeah. Yeah. I I love the concept of capsule wardrobes. Ever since I saw the first one in my sister's 17 magazine, you know, and then this goes, you can wear this and you can mix and match all of these outfits. And I even would keep a chart and I wrote down, and I didn't want to have to ever wear the same thing the whole year. Cause I and I was a cheerleader, so that took up three days of clothing because we just had to wear our uniforms to school. But like the rest of the time, I wanted to be so creative and mix and match all my clothes. And that's always been super fun for me. But at the same time, when you're thinking of like packing that capsule wardrobe and uh and all of that, sometimes for me that can be a little too boring. Because it's like, well, you can't look boring sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

If that's not your style, you naturally gravitate to. If you're a colorful person and you go to a traditional minimalist capsule wardrobe, you're gonna be like, I do not like this. But it's not I felt like that was me. And it feels easy because you can copy and paste it. But then again, a lot of people kind of lose their style in that. And if that's not the end of the world to you, by all means. But I think again, it's about like comfort and confidence. And I think those are especially helpful to have is while you're traveling, you know, all the time, but especially when you're traveling and can sometimes be in uncomfortable situations. You know, on a train, on a roller coaster, in a small tiny cabin on a cruise ship. We all want to feel like our our best, which makes sense.

SPEAKER_04 40:58

Feel and look our best. You've talked about these pieces that do heavy lifting for you. Do you have a favorite heavy lifter that you pack with you?

SPEAKER_03 41:05

Oh, yes. Um, on our trip to England, and interestingly enough, it was a heat wave there is in the 90s. Wow. And of course, no air conditioning. Right. I was like, oh yeah, these darn Europeans and they're no AC, but they're learning. All the all the people we met who were like, we're getting, you know, uh AC units, like little mini splits because it's getting so hot there. But all that to say I have these amazing wide leg pants from Viore. Okay. And they they're really they dry fast. So if I did need to rinse them, I love having just options that are really easy maintenance. They don't wrinkle. I had a black pair and I had a blue pair. And I wore those, I mean, at 80%. Even if it was 90, I just wore a tank top with them. Yeah. Um, because they're so lightweight. And if I wanted to dress up, I would just throw on like a necklace and like maybe put my hair up. And all of a sudden I felt a little more put together if I needed to go out to a nice dinner.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

And I would change my shoe out from a sneaker all day to like a flat. So it's, I think it's so much simpler than a lot of us think. But you have to practice it. Um, you would agree, I'm sure it's not gonna be drastic overnight the way you pack. It's it's I think it's a fun challenge. And for my brain, I kind of like trying to push myself. Like, how can I jez myself up without needing to bring an extra, you know, checked bag filled with heels or stuff. Um, and it's just it's a lot of fun. Yeah.

Travel Choices When Everything Sounds Fun

SPEAKER_04 42:34

And you know, Katie, we talked a little bit about decision fatigue um that can happen. For me, it's a lot of like choosing where something's gonna live. When we go back to like that, finding a place for everything and making a place for the things that matter and things like that. But then we also have decision clutter with like maybe if we're super ambitious like I am, maybe you want to visit the whole world, having your travel bucket list. So, how can we decide what trips should come next? Or yeah, you know, how do we deal with this whole decision fatigue that could crop up?

SPEAKER_03 43:06

This question, I actually I'll answer it with one of the methods I share in the book for I identity clutter, and that is the um three S's. So story, season, and self, I think can really work well here. That's what's so cool about the strategies in there. They that you can apply them towards so many fields, like you said. So story is like, you know, with all the opportunities to travel and places to go and business things that maybe come our way, or there's there's so many opportunities, I think, when we zoom out, and it can be like, how do I decide? So, um, you know, from a story perspective, what story have I tied to this project, this travel destination, this opportunity? Do I think that's actually a true story? Again, I think sometimes the meaning we assign things is is a little maybe not accurate, depending on, well, our background and everything. So, season would be the second one. Does this fit fit the season of life I'm currently in right now? I mean. I'm willing to travel other places now that my kids are 9-11 versus when they were small. It just everything feels a little bit easier now that they're more independent. So I might be more likely to travel to a place like a longer flight, like Australia, where I didn't feel confident or comfortable when they were that small. I know people do do that, but that was the season and kind of my personality type. So I think we all have to play to that. And the third one is self. Does this align with who I am today or who I want to be or where I truly want to travel? And of course, a lot of us don't travel solo. We travel with family. So just having some honest conversation with who we want to or who we plan to travel with, I think can always kind of cut through a lot of the decision-making clutter because I think a lot of us are really good at saying, here's all the things I don't want. And that can help you realize what you do want. You know, this is why a lot of my friends end up going, well, I'll just do an all-inclusive. I don't want to cook. It's not my season right now. I want to take a break from that. And that's so warranted. And I I love that. I don't want to live in a hotel. Okay, so that means Airbnb. So it's almost like, you know, those little decision tree decision trees we've all seen in 17 magazine back in the day or whatever. So I think using just a simple template like that can be again, it cuts through everything and it helps you gain clarity. Plus, when there's other people involved, of course, we do need their say as well.

SPEAKER_04 45:23

Right, right. Let them chime in. Yes. Um, well, I feel like the identity clutter that you mentioned ties in with a lot of or could tie in with my next question, which is in regards to ambition clutter. And for me, this is where I struggle the most. And maybe I'm the only person in the world that that faces this, but I want to do so many things. There's a scripture that talks about making the most of every opportunity. And I have soaked in that, like that is so much of my mindset is like every day has to have 600 million things. There's so many amazing things that I want to do and experience and dive into and excel in and be this in and all of that. And so for me, I feel like, yeah, some of that I could go in and I could ask myself that question is that an identity clutter thing? Is that something that I want to do it just because I want that identity? But I feel like for the most part, everything that I want to do comes because I just really just want to do it. Not to prove anything or, you know, maybe sometimes to prove it to myself, maybe that, okay, yes, I can actually do this. You know, I want to accomplish this just because I want to. And so, so for me, that is the source of my lack of minimalism, right? Because I want this maximized life, right? And you can maximize when you minimize and you have clarity around those things. So there's just always that, I guess, war going on within me that there is a limit. We've talked about boundaries. You have boundaries at home, you have boundaries in your suitcase, you have boundaries with your budget, but there's also this boundary of time. Oh man, ain't that a tough one to grapple with?

SPEAKER_03 47:20

So when First of all, yeah, I I think I am not like you in the sense that I I I it's for me from what I've heard from you and just chatting with you today, I love like you just have this amazing zest. And I I think I have a curiosity for life, but I'm also like at ease just sitting and like not having to do stuff. And that's just a personality thing. That's not like, oh, I I need to do more or oh, you need to do less. So again, you're playing to yourself. You've gone through like, am I wanting to do these things to simply post online and share that I've been to this spot or because I really want to, or because I'm trying to prove something. And again, those are really great questions to ask. I think one good question to ask ourselves when we have these opportunities, or we're like trying to figure out what do I do next when everything sounds amazing, is like, if I, if someone were to tell you, Alexa, you could never, never do one of those things. I don't know if it's a place you want to travel, pick one. What's a place you really want to travel?

SPEAKER_04 48:27

We've never been to Australia.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

Okay. If I told you, Alexa, you can never go to Australia, would you? And if you came to terms with our I'm never going there, would you actually grieve that? Or would you kind of be like, all right, like I I'll find somewhere else? Or like, okay, I'll just go to the next thing. And I think, you know, if we just give it some time and space and and really wonder like how I feel if I never got to go there.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Okay. Or I think that's I want to do this job, I want to start this company or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

Right. And obviously, that's a very like, sure, you can probably still go to Australia, but I think sometimes if we ask that question and we really feel like we're grieving that, then that can give us clarity. And also saying not now doesn't mean not ever. And I think a lot of us get confused with that, whether it's with physical possessions, letting go, like, oh, if I let go of this, that means I'm a failure. If I get rid of all my college textbooks and all these physical items that represent the blood, sweat, and tears I put into who I am and my identity and my career or my motherhood, then that means it didn't happen. It's like, actually, no, that's not what that means. It means you're letting go to create space for what matters most right now. And you might be in a season where you're pushing into work and Australia gets punted down the field five, 50 yards versus five yards. And I think we all have to grapple with that, whether we are you or someone like me, where I'm like, I'm just along for the ride right now, but that's my season I'm in. It's definitely a big personality thing and a season thing. Mm-hmm. So I think that that can always help provide clarity in that department as well.

How To Find Katie Joy Wells

SPEAKER_03 50:04

That's great.

SPEAKER_04 50:05

I have like, I feel like I have 60 hundred other questions. That's not even a word that I'd love to ask you and chat with you, but because of time, here's our reality, right? We have this time restraint. Um, I would love to know what is next for you and how can people connect with you and find you and all of that good stuff.

SPEAKER_03 50:27

Yeah. Come hang out on the podcast, uh, the Maximize Min list. There's new episod episodes every Wednesday. And it's just a great hang, short, pretty short episodes. And um, you can listen to them in the car on a on a walk while you're exercising, while you're traveling. Right. Um, all the things. Uh, I have a really great free newsletter that comes out every Wednesday as well with some really practical, tangible tips, mindset, practical, and all the things to declutter your closet, your home, your suitcase, whatever. And um, I also offer one-on-one coaching as well. You can find out all that on the website, katydroywells.com, or just come check out the show. Um, those are really great places to get started if you're interested in it. Curating, simplifying your life in a way that really, you know, works for you versus just someone else.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

Awesome. Um, and that reminds me, I have a friend, uh, and I'll put a link to her in our show notes. And she she comes in and, you know, she's she does organizing and things like that. And she, I worked with her when I lived in Nashville. She was really great because she, it was that one-on-one where she was like, she asked the right questions. She spoke to me in a language I could understand and relate to. Whereas there are a million books out on organizing or decluttering or whatever. And sometimes they can help speak a language that you connect with. But my friend Lori, she would ask questions in a way that I I was really okay to let some things go, just of how she spoke with me. So that one-on-one can be such a huge help. So if someone uh wants to meet with you one-on-one, or are the do you offer remote options or do they need to be in North Carolina? How does how do your one-on-ones work?

SPEAKER_03 52:01

Yeah, I have clients all over the world. I mostly do remote work through Zoom and through some, you know, platforms like that. So yeah, all that info is on the website. There's a it's closed right now. There's a wait list until I think fall when I open that back up. But there's definitely some great opportunity. And I do think there's such value. And number one, I think we're all, we've all hit times in our goals where we feel stuck and we're on this hamster wheel. And I feel like a lot of people come to me in this space where they have a lot of shame, frustration, resentment, overwhelm, and like this should be easy. I should be able to figure this out. And I think it's to be able to unpack in less than an hour. I used to think that too. I used to think I was the only one who struggled with clutter and like this was a me problem. I'll never be smart enough to feel like I'm smart, but why can't I figure this out?

SPEAKER_05 52:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

And so I just want to let everyone know, you are not, it's everyone's so many people struggle with this and you are not alone. And I think um, you know, it having that other perspective, like you said, Alexa, having someone with you to just offer these different strategies so you don't struggle with this decision fatigue, so you get unstuck can be some of the most powerful breakthroughs we get. I know any coaching I've had in my life, whether it's business or health or whatever, have all come through, you know, me and asking me the right questions and give me the strategies that I need versus being like, read these 18 books. And of course, you know, the book is great too. A lot of my lot of my strategies live in there. So if you're a book reader or audible, you can grab that to listen to a lot of people declutter and just I've gotten so many testimonies of people just made, I mean, getting rid of 20 years of stuff or the stuff they inherited from their parents that they literally couldn't even tackle before reading. So it tackles all different types of clutter. It's not one size fits all, like so many books out there. It's really designed for the person who's tried it before, or maybe you just want to build that declutter muscle. Maybe you're already great at decluttering and organizing, but you want to learn some new tips, but um, it'll definitely help you optimize. That's right.

SPEAKER_04 53:58

Yeah. And I I feel like yours is a standout and that you offer some fresh perspective. And I also feel like your book, yes, it applies to home, but the principles go beyond that. And so you can read the book once and work on your home, but then you can also read the book in the context of, hey, I now I want to have minimalism in my travel space. I want to minimize my workspace. I want to minimize this area of my life. And so your principles can apply in each of those. And so that's really, really wonderful. And you told me that you are going to be working on a new book. So I'm excited to see what you're gonna work on next. Do you have any final thoughts you want to share?

SPEAKER_03 54:40

Yeah, you know, I think just a reminder that we can do hard things. We can also do easy things. So if you feel stuck in a rut, if you feel overwhelmed, grab the book, you know, listen to the podcast, get that other perspective, and you know, just take one step forward. It can help so much. And just feeling like you're not alone, I think, can be one of the most helpful things. That's a big reason why I have one of my communities called the Clutter Cure Club. I think there's immense priceless value going through this journey with other people because it helps disarm shame. And when we're stuck in shame, hope and action don't really feel possible. And I lived in that space uh, you know, for a long time before I was able to get unstuck and start developing a lot of these strategies on my own. And it's just one of my favorite things to do this with other people, especially even more so in the day of, you know, AI. We need each other. We need each other. We need to surround ourselves with people on the same journey. So uh yeah, I think that's a good good note to end. Love it. Love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 55:43

And real quick, you know, one way we can get with other people is having a good meal. Yes. Right. And uh, and so we're gonna be diving in real quick. I know that you and I have talked quite, you know, this is this is a longer episode, and that's okay. We're gonna have a second guest on our episode. We're gonna be meeting with Mark of Gilly Loco. And uh, they make coconut oil tortilla chips. Yum. They're seed oil free. You were able to get a little serving of that, I think, in your home.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

Yes, they were delivered literally 10 minutes before the show started. And I I was telling Alexa, I get every I there's not a time I eat something and I don't get food just stuck in my teeth. So, and I was, you know, in a rush, as we all are. And I told the boys, go ahead. And uh they're like, it's like 10 a, it's like 9:30. I'm like, chow down, have some chips and salsa. And they they've been eating that for the last hour while I've been chatting with Alexa. But but but they said it was like so delicious. And I am big on good oils, and so many bad oils are in so much food. And this is something I've been really working hard on, really since my 20s. And it really, it's hard. It's hard to find really good quality chips. So love it. And I can't wait to order more, to be honest with you. So I was really excited that I got to share in that delicious fair. And you're right, we do love coming together for a meal, right? Yes. As people, and I think that's a yeah, have some chips and salsa. First of all, crowd pleaser. And I do everything easy. If you come to my house, I am not the hostess with the most is, but I will have like good food. I will maybe do paper plates. Sorry, I have to do that sometimes. Yep. Um, and we're gonna have chips and salsa and everyone's gonna love it.

SPEAKER_04 57:27

Kelly loco. Yeah. Love it, love it, love it. Katie, thank you so much. Uh, this has been so inspiring and so fun. And I really look forward to more folks connecting with you and continuing their minimalism journey. And and I love that minimalism means making space for the things that you love. Like I feel like your definition of it is the ultimate goal, and your means to get there is uh is really great through. Maybe we can also call this Emma's for mindset. Amen. I love it. Thank you so much, Katie. Thank you. Thank you, Katie, so much for joining us on the episode.

Meet Mark Behind Gilly Loco

SPEAKER_04 58:07

And now, y'all, we have a second guest on our episode, and we're really excited because this episode is sponsored by the New Mexico Department of Agriculture and Gilly Loco. And Mark Escajeda is the head and owner and aficionado of Gilly Loco. So we are really excited to have Mark with us. He's gonna share about his amazing brand. Welcome, Mark.

SPEAKER_02 58:35

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 58:36

Glad to have you. Before we dive in, I just need to kind of brag on your product a little bit and kind of share why I wanted to have you on the episode. I had the privilege of getting to meet you. It's almost been like a year and a half ago now. And I met you at an expo. I go to a natural pro oh, you know what? Uh for those watching visually, I have a New Mexico Department of Agriculture. Oh, that's a nice one. I need to put this on. All right. Sporting sports. Look at that, right? It's okay. So uh yeah, so I got to go to this expo, and there was a New Mexico Department of Agriculture booth, and you were there, Mark, and with your wonderful corn chips, your tortilla chips. And so you have your main uh, I guess, bread and butter are your corn chips and your salsas. And so I'm at the New Mexico booth. I grew up in Albuquerque, and so I'm just like, I was just like dog on a bone going to this booth to meet you. And um, these are some of the best corn chips, tortilla chips, however you want to call them, I have ever had. And they are so amazing. And so that was a year and a half ago, and that whole following year, your chips were on my brain, Mark. Like I was like, I can't wait to see you again. So um I got to see Mark again in March of this year. If you're listening, when we released this, we're in 2026. But I got to meet you again and eat the chips again, and just it was just like, you know, really, really fun that your chips, I brought some home, I went to the expo and tasted them, but they were on my brain for like that a following year. And I think that says a lot, right? I mean, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:18

Yeah, I mean, we take a lot of pride in the quality of our products. And uh when people see tortilla chips, they just like, oh, you know, there's a whole aisle dedicated to tortilla chips. What makes them different? And so when they look at our ingredients and see on the packaging that there's coconut oil, I people are like, wow, okay, that's that is different. So we're one of the only tortilla chip company brands in the country using coconut oil, which is of course a seed oil-free oil. And we're just really proud of uh being able to do that because it's not easy. But we just we don't develop products that we are not proud of. And what I mean by that is that if I'm if I'm not comfortable putting it in front of my my children, if I'm not comfortable bringing it out at a party, then I'm not I'm not gonna serve it to the masses. You know what I mean? So every time we come up with a formula, whether it's a salsa, a chili, or the uh tortilla chips, we're like, okay, is this something that we would eat regularly? And I can promise you Yes. Uh we eat plenty of them ourselves. It's one of those snacks where I can leave it a bag open on my table at home while my wife or I are cooking dinner, and we just don't feel guilty about it. I you know, if if it's goldfish, I'm and not a helicopter parent by any means, but I'm like, you know, maybe we shouldn't eat so much of that. Right. You know, or whatever snack it might be that kids just really, really like. And um but with ours, I just l I just keep it open. Uh my kids ask for more and more salsa to be poured in that bowl and more and more chips to be opened. And it's a really that's just the foundation of our entire company is that we just really want to provide quality products and and I get it. It might not be for everybody, you know, they might not understand the importance of coconut oil, but we at least want to offer an alternative uh to what's available out on the market because the whole there's entire chip aisles that have seed oils. And we just want to stand out and be different. And so when we developed it, we just had that in mind, and we're just super grateful that we've come this far. This hasn't been easy.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

So it's a lot of work, it's a lot of work. It is well, the other reason that I wanted to have you on this particular episode as well is because of kind of what you've been talking about purity and high quality, but also this is very this is a very minimally processed food. And as we're talking about M is for minimalism, and M is for Mark, right? Um But as as we think about M is for minimalism, right, we might want to be thinking about how we minimize our weight, some of us, or how are we minimizing our health risks and things like that. And you are you offer a really clean version of a very fun comfort food and a very fun, I don't know, like for us, it's almost a staple just because I did grow up in Albuquerque.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:14

It's it's it's to in my mind, it was easy to equate your brand with minimalism in the fact that it's just there's not a lot of added junk. There's no clutter, there's no, you know, it's just like a very clean, simple, you can understand all the ingredients and all your products. Like when you go look at the label, you're gonna know exactly what that is. There's no mysteries. So I just I that was the other reason I wanted you on this specific episode because I feel like you bring that to the table. And so I just wanted to point that out.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:50

Well, thank you for noticing. Uh, because that's something that we're also very proud of, and it's not by accident that our our ingredient list is very, very minimal. Only five simple ingredients. I can listen to you and be proud of it. It's corn, coconut oil, sea salt, water, and lime. So very, very minimal. I sadly have turned uh chips on of other brands around, and I see what's in there. I'm like, wow, that is it's just sad. And you know what, like I said, and and I g I understand that aspect of it too, I suppose, but I I just wanted it. That's why we came out with our tortilla chips. You wanted to be different, you wanted to show people okay, you can still like those tortilla chips, that's fine. But here's another alternative if you're looking for something a little bit healthier. And so thank you for noticing. Even our salsas, we don't use any preservatives in any of our salsas, so it's very clean. Um, even going to the source of our corn, it's non-GMO verified. And I have a quick story about that as well. Even our corn is actually technically organic, although our thank you. Yeah, it's awesome because we can't say organic on our packaging because our farmer they they they reached out to us and was like, hey, Mark, I we love farming. We don't like the the back admin stuff of the the organic certifications, we don't like the fees, but I'd much rather be on my tractor and and doing what we do best, and so we are not going to carry our organic certification anymore. However, we are carrying out our organic practices, so you can't claim organic, but it it's still an organic product. And I just really have a respect for them for that because I understand. I we we're of course what we can be is non-GMO verified, and I understand in a company of our size, you know, it's still tough to handle the certifications and being up to date and sitting on that stuff, but so going back to it, our our corn is just the best corn that you can really resource. And uh yeah, and other than that, I mean coconut oil, water, lime, sea salt. So thank you for noticing our clean ingredients. We appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:00

Yeah, for sure. And then your salsas, they don't have sugar in them, do they?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

There's one that does. It's actually a yeah. And that one is actually a brown sugar to sweeten it up. It's actually our salsa aloha, which is a really, really good one. And it's not a heavy amount of brown sugar, just a nice subtle amount because it's actually a red chili salsa. So what makes it unique is that we use red chili, hatch red chili as the base, and then we add our vegetables to make and our the little bit of sugar to sweeten it up. And it is it's incredible. It's really, really good.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

All right. So so just one, just that one salsa has sugar, the rest don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Yep. That is correct.

Why Coconut Oil Beats Seed Oils

SPEAKER_04 1:06:39

So what's the benefit of coconut oil? What is the benefit of having it be a seed oil-free product? Because, you know, seeds are really good for you, right? So what is kind of the quote unquote bad part of having it be of seed oils? What's the what's the disadvantage to sure?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:02

And that's such a great question. I think a lot of people are now starting to educate themselves on what's good and what's bad, uh, trying to filter themselves through the the information that's out there because there's so much. But this is what we have to say. And I tell this to all my customers and all the people that are curious about purchasing Ghili Loco, and just people I want to educate as well. I always start off and tell them you wouldn't put the wrong oil in your car. So we don't want to put it in our body. So, and that's just the most simple way to understand it. Because if you put the wrong oil in your car, your car's gonna break down. And it's gonna be, it just won't function well. It will, it it there's a on the other side of it, when you use the right oil for your car, your car is gonna drive an extra 10,000 miles, another, you know, 15,000 miles because you know you put the right oil into it. Um, same goes into our processes as well. So once you use coconut oil, it's just a much healthier oil for many reasons. One of them is because that it breaks down into energy much faster. So it's actually once you eat a tortilla chip, and and I've it's so funny actually, because I used to before we had Gilly Loco, you know, I'd bring chips to lunch and I would eat chips, and whether it was a different, I don't want to name brands, but whether it was a different band, I'm like, why am I so tired? I just had lunch, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:25

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

But there were seed oils in the bread I was eating, there were seed oils in the chips I was eating, there were seed oils in uh the snacks that I was eating, you know. And so that it when you start looking at it, it's like, why was I so tired? It's because we had a lot of seed oils, and your body is working extra hard to digest it and and kind of get it out of your bottom. Right. I think people just are not feeling themselves very tired. They felt weak, they'd have no energy to get throughout the day. And I think when we understood, okay, maybe it's our diet that's not aligning with why we're losing our energy. I think people realized, okay, I think it's the oil. And then after that, everything started booming through the seed oil-free community. It was like they understood the mission of people are not feeling great. And now you see big brands doing it, small brands doing the seed oil-free stuff. And I think it was because of the demand of people waking up after eight hours of broken sleep, nine hours of broken sleep or whatever, and realizing I am still tired. Like I cannot sleep well. I when I wake up, I have no energy, I don't want to go to work. I have a family that I have to watch out for, and I feel like I'm not holding up my end of the deal as a as a parent. Um and so when I think when it clicked for people, like, okay, it's because I opened my my pantry and I realized there's so many seed oils in in in everything, and it's very, very hard to avoid. Like I said, Alexa, it just doesn't break down in your body like it should. And it takes your body a lot of energy just to break it down so it could start digesting it. Once you find the root cause, and if you do change your diet just a little bit, like you just be more mindful of what oils you're actually consuming, you will feel a very significant difference in your energy levels, your sleep patterns, and just your overall quality of health, which is exciting because I think we all want to obtain just a great lifestyle where we don't have to feel like in the mud all the time. And I don't think it's a coincidence that with that the rise of heart disease is also has been increasing over the years. So and I and God willing, I believe it's gonna start going down because now there's a few more brands that are doing it, and it's I think it's fantastic. I mean, whether it's beef tallow, avocado oil, coconut oil, those are the three that I I I truly believe in, as well as uh olive oil.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:00

If you're gonna do an oil, those are the good ones.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:02

I I would say those are the ones that I would highly recommend. And it's so hard to avoid, you know, it's it's it's in everything, and it's really, really hard to avoid. But also in addition to that, there's just a lot of great aspects to coconut oil. There's some really great cooking elements to it, so there's higher smoke points. With and a lot of people are like, well, do you get a taste of coconut in your tortilla chips? I don't think I want to taste the coconut oil when I'm eating salsa. And I'm like, oh, I totally understand, and that's why you don't get any flavor, but you get all the health benefits of the coconut oil. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:35

I did want to point out, Mark, I do not like coconut. I'm a vegetarian and but I'm picky. I don't like coconut and I don't like mushrooms, but like eggs. I'm not picky or anything.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:49

But coconut is like I've been able to kind of get used to it because a lot of more a lot more like healthier brands are adding coconut in their chocolate fruits. And I love chocolate, so that might be a gateway for me to where I can start appreciating coconut. Like the like because there are a lot of benefits, health benefits with coconut.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:13

But I do not like the taste of coconut. And so I just wanted to point that out to people that I am one of those people that does not like coconut and I love your chips.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:25

And I can attest, yes, they don't taste like coconut.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:28

Yeah, and that I think that's one of the big uh concerns that people have. Like, is it going to? And I'm like, no, you you just get all the health benefits from it, which is exciting because um, which is a it's a double-edged sword because coconut oil also makes you fool quicker, but our chips are so good you don't want to stop. So you you have a tough balance that you have to really balance it out in your mind and in your body. You know, because I I'll say it, I've had a whole bag and I'm like, wow, I I need another one, you know, and they're a length of ounces. So, and that's another great thing about our product is that you get an actual you you probably open other brands and they're either you know two ounces or five ounces, and you're like, Where's all the chips? And then and or it's a big bag and you open it, and then there's like air just slaps you in the face, and like, okay, like a big pillow, essentially. But with ours, you get 11 ounces of tortilla chips, which is plenty to and we do it all the time in my house. We will make nachos, whether it's with meat or beans or chili, cheese, you know, all the great add-ons to it. So yeah, we're we're you know, it's exciting that we get to offer a larger bag, and so your value gets extended a little bit more to you.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:43

Right. I love it. Now,

Where To Buy Gilly Loco

SPEAKER_04 1:13:45

where can people find you? Uh, where can they purchase these awesome chips?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:49

Well, yeah, great question. So uh, you know what? We actually just partnered up with Home Goods Nationwide. So I know your audience extends very wide. So Home Goods Nationwide is where you'll be able to pick up one of our bags. They do go very, very fast, which is exciting for us. God has been so good. He's opened up a lot of new doors for us. It's been awesome to see where our new opportunity will come from. And that was our our latest opportunity was Home Goods Nationwide. So good.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

Congrats.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:16

If thank you. If you are in these uh New Mexico region, Colorado, uh a little bit of Utah, Kansas, a little bit of Texas as well. We're in a various grocery stores. So the best one that I can always aim people towards is definitely Whole Foods within the Rocky Mountain region. That's that's a great store for us. Let's see, we are also in sprouts, natural grocers. We're about to get into Walmart with our tortilla chips. We just got in with our salsa, so that's very exciting. Like I said, Alexa, God's just been opening up so many new doors that we never thought were really a company of our size was possible. But anything is possible for God when you just put your trust in Him. And and over the last, gosh, probably about a year and a half, maybe two years, really ever since my baptism a couple years ago, I was like, I was like, God, if this is the direction you want our company to go into, just let it be. And I'm gonna just put all my trust and and faith into you. And if we close tomorrow, it was a fun ride. And you'll have I know you'll have something else for me to do. Uh, but if this is just the beginning, let it be the beginning and I'll glorify your name all the way through. So that's just how I've always the last couple years approached it, and it's that's how I know God is real because look what he's done in our business. We've been doing we've been doing stuff the exact same way for about over 10 years now and haven't had much results from it. But when I put all of my trust in God just lead it, you know, give me wisdom, and he has, and it's been awesome. And he's he's he's led it to doors that I've never even thought was possible. So it's been fun.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:57

That is amazing. Yeah, and and those are some big doors you're getting to walk through. And and it sounds like this is just the beginning, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:05

It has been, and it you know what, and Kroger stores have stepped in, United stores have stepped in. We have some few, a couple new products that are in the pipeline that I cannot wait to announce. I mean, it is gonna be very fantastic, and and hopefully all those products just honored the kingdom, and that's what I'm like that's why it g it literally gives me juice bumps, and so I'm I'm can't wait uh for those products to be released. And and yeah, it'll be really cool. It'll it'll impact um a lot of families. I'll just say that and I'll leave it there, but it'll be really cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:37

Okay, okay. Sounds good. Do you produce all in Albuquerque or do you have different places around New Mexico?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:45

Great question. So we have one salsa manufacturing facility in Albuquerque, and that and which is where we're based. When we started Ghili Loco, we were only a chip, or excuse me, we were only a salsa and chili company. So uh, which haps so happened to be just right down the street where they could manufacture our salsa and our chili for us, which was awesome because it was super easy to our warehouse, you know. It was really cool. And so uh later on, about eight years ago, nine years ago, when we were starting to develop our tortilla chip, we approached a lot of different companies uh that had fryers if they would want to use coconut oil. And we got no 10 out of 10 times. They're like, we don't want to change the oil out from what we're using, whether it's vegetable oil, oil, soybean oil, to coconut oil because we they would have to clean and sanitize and get it ready for uh coconut oil to come into the fires. And nobody wanted to do that. And uh and then we got this lead from somewhere of a small place up in Colorado, and he and so we reached out to him. He's like, you know what, I believe in that. I I believe that we should have more healthy products out there. Great guy. We actually still do business with him to this day, and it's almost been we're we're closing up on 10 years of of relationship with him. But he but he believed in us so much that he bought his own designated fryer for us, which was it was cool. We were like, okay. So he believes in, and that's all Gilly Loco needs, is this somebody to believe in? And so we were like, so we were like, okay, let's do it. So uh we got the formula down, we got the recipe down, we started mass producing these in this in this little fryer and tiny little thing. And so uh, and at the time we weren't doing the volume we are today, or he would never be able to keep up. So we eventually started growing and growing and growing, and eventually he had a swap fryer, so we we took over the big fryer, and he he's in the you know, kind of put that other fryer to bed and uh and uses it time to time for his own stuff. So we've kept him pretty busy, and God willing, we'll keep him more busy in the future. Our salsa facility is here in Albuquerque, our chip facility is up in Colorado, so that's kind of how that worked out. So yeah, it's kind of funny. We could just gonna find anybody that wanted to use coconut oil, but we were so on it that we they were asking us if we wanted to use a blend of an oil to mix with their soybean oil or vegetable oil, canola oil, and to mix it with coconut oil, which of course it would bring the price way down because you know we don't need as much coconut oil. But we were like, you know what? No, we we want to be different, we want to stand out, and yeah, we and we believe in coconut oil versus all those other sedobos. So right. So it's just really exciting that we are able to provide two different skews and one I uh hold up. So we have the blue corn chips, and then of course our yellow corn chips. The blue corn chips are uh about a year old. We we started off doing the yellow corn, so it's been around for a while. It's been it's a staple for thousands of houseworms throughout the country, and we're so grateful for that. And then the blue corn, when we did the first recipe with the blue corn, I was like, oh my goodness, that is just it was incredible. So it wasn't easy to do because actually uh blue corn cooks a little bit different than yellow corn, so it's a whole it's we can't treat it the same. Um, you can't throw it in the fryers the same. And also because they're all they're different thicknesses as well, the the chips, yeah, it's a little bit lighter, which is what we really liked. We didn't want a big chip because I've had thick chips before, and we have three, and your your jaw's kind of like okay. Right. That's enough of that.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:24

Yeah, these have a great texture, they really do.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

Thank you. So, all the stuff from like the thickness of chips and uh the ingredients that go into it, the oil that goes into it, the frying, how different it is from the blue to the yellow, everything there's so much that goes to into it, but we'll take care of the hard stuff and we'll just provide a great product that y'all can can consume.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

So and we can all head to Home Goods and grab some. Yep, yeah. And are are we gonna find the blue corn and the yellow corn at HomeGoods?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:53

That is correct. And uh so home goods nationwide. Um, so that's probably the easiest way to get your fix really quick. We also do have our website, which we ship hundreds and thousands of boxes out. I mean, okay, great. That's another way that God has blessed us through our online, and so we could ship it anywhere in the country. So for Father's Day, that just happened. I mean, we were people love their dads, let's just put it that way. And they won't they want them to have long and healthy lives, which was exciting because it it literally brought goosebumps up to me. We did a little email and a little video about like Father's Day, and the response that we got was just incredible. And I was like, okay, our customers love their parents enough to send them something like that. So and it's a cool treat because they probably have never experienced a tortilla with coconut oil before.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:39

We we offer a box that has three jars of salsa, four bags of chips, and it's just it's a great ratio. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:48

So you can pick uh we're still revising the website just a little bit, but you'll in uh in probably the next couple weeks you'll be able to select all these different types of options, whether it's two bags of yellow corn, two bags of blue corn, four bags of four bags of blue corn, four bags of yellow. There's so many different variables. But like I said, we'll take care of the hard part. If you guys just support us, we would appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:10

So very cool. Will you spell out the URL where people can go to your website?

SPEAKER_01 1:22:14

Yeah, it's and it's super easy. It's just www.gilliloco.com, g-i-l-l-y, l-o-c-o.com. You'll find all of our stuff. Laura, my business partner, she's been working tirelessly, revamping our website, making it more user-friendly, just making it easier for the customer to be like, okay, I, you know, not so many hurdles and obstacles. This is where it's just this is what we have, and here you go. You know, if that's what you want.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:42

That's so great. Well, we will put the link to that in the show notes so folks can go visit there and find you. One other little question I have for you. You know, you mentioned you are able to label it non-GMO verified, but you also have a different logo on your product.

New Mexico Taste Of Tradition

SPEAKER_04 1:23:01

So you want to tell us a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:04

On my hat?

SPEAKER_04 1:23:05

On my hat.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:06

Yes. The hat that I need, actually, that's an incredible uh New Mexico Taste of Traditions. Just awesome. They are an incredible, incredible organization. They uh we even uh put the New Mexico Taste of Tradition on our uh our packaging to show that we are a New Mexico brand, that we support New Mexico. And the cool thing is, we New Mexico, you get the best chili. Literally, it's called the chili capital of the world in Hatch, New Mexico. And the reason why it is because they harvest incredible chili, because the climate's perfect for the soil, the water as well. It's just it's it couldn't be in a better spot, literally in the world. And so partnering up the with the New Mexico Taste of Tradition, it has been awesome because they share a lot of the same values as we do. So it's been fantastic. So, yes, we do have New Mexico Taster Tradition on our packaging, on our displays. I mean, we're just very proud to represent that. Yeah, and I love, love, love that hat. So I need to get me one.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:09

Okay, I'll send I'll send this to you. All right. We want to thank the New Mexico Department of Agriculture and their Taste the Tradition logo program and their their uh Grown with Tradition program. And thank you to you, Mark, as well with Gilly Loco for supporting this episode as well. And we just really appreciate your time and your efforts. And I'm so glad that your business is continuing to grow as it should because it's super delicious. And I can't wait for everyone to taste this and start getting it in their home and chowing down on some awesome chips and salsa.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:46

Thank you. Well, we're so grateful for this opportunity, and we're so grateful for uh Mexico Taste Tradition because they're they helped us kind of connect a little bit so at the at those trade shows, which is just fantastic. And uh yeah, we're just so grateful for the direction that God's taken us. Like I said, I will follow him for the day I die. So I've seen the power that he can do, and we're it's just the tip of the ice cream. So we're super grateful for that. And uh God is good, even in the hardest of days, God is always good. So yeah, we we've enjoyed this ride, and wherever it takes us, we'll follow him.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:22

I love it. Yes, agreed, and thank you so much. We really appreciate it. And y'all again visit them at www.gillyloco.com and follow them on socials, and we will see you all on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:39

Thank you, Alexa. I appreciate it. That's just a lot.

Final Takeaways And Subscribe

SPEAKER_04 1:25:44

We hope we've inspired you this episode. So join us next time. Please subscribe to rate and share our podcast with your friends.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:50

Oh whoever.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:52

And please like and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, and Facebook.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:55

We are also on X and on all social platforms. We are at The Romies. That's T H E R O A M. I E S. And our main hub is our website.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:06

At www.theromies.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:09

That's right, that's T H E.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:11

R O A M. I E S dot com. We'll be there until next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:16

Yeah, thanks for listening. Bye.