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Hi, I'm Alexa.

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And I'm Rory. And together we are the Rowies. We're a husband-wife duo and longtime travelers who believe travel isn't just about where you go. It's about how it shapes the way you live when you get home.

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On the Rowies podcast, we explore where to travel, how to travel, and why to travel. Through our lens of creativity, wellness, and everyday life.

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We're calling it this season home to all. As we travel near and far, we're sharing the ways we bring inspiration all.

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It's all about making travel tangible, livable, and meaningful long after the trip ends.

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So whether you're planning your next adventure or reimagining the life you're building at home, you're in the right place.

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And now, let's get into today's episode. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Romies Podcast, and we are calling this episode D is for Doors. If you think about it, travel is really just a series of doors. Some are grand and historic, some are carved by nature, some are quiet and ordinary. On our recent girl's birthday getaway to Glenwood Springs, my friend Dr. Heidi P-Tack and I walked through so many doors. We stepped through the grand historic doors of Hotel Colorado, doors that have welcomed presidents, celebrities, and dreamers for over a century. We passed through cave entrances at Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park. Openings were carved by time itself. We walked through the gates at Doc Holiday's grave, a doorway to the Wild West history. We opened spa doors, athletic club doors, hot springs entrances. We wandered in and out of downtown storefronts, each holding its own story. And what I started realizing is this this episode isn't just about an awesome destination. It's about what that destination opened up. Doors into history, doors into adventure, doors into play, doors into healing, doors into friendship, doors into rest and restoration. Because this episode covers all of that. The reinvented rivers that shape the town, the caves and coasters, the stories of famous guests at Hotel Colorado, the hot springs, the height to the cemetery, the laughter of a girl's trip. All of it, doors. And here's what's been so interesting. This theme followed us home, of course. This week in real life, Rory and I have been talking about doors too. An historic door from an old Waco elementary school that we're trying to figure out how to repurpose, a craftsman friend who's literally turning a door into a table. You'll hear about him later. The idea of rebuilding our own front doors with wood from trees that grew in our yard. And it makes me wonder, maybe travel isn't just about the doors we walk through, maybe it's about who we become on the other side of them. Maybe it's about the doors we decide to build, the spaces we create, the tables we gather around, and the invitations we extend. But before we bring this all the way home, we're gonna step through another door because Glenwood Springs itself is a doorway. It's a hub for the surrounding ski areas, a refueling point for mountain adventures, a historic crossroads shaped by rivers, railroads, and resistance. So to help set the stage, we sat down with Lisa Langer, the tourism director of Visit Glenwood Springs, which is a department of the Glenwood Springs Chamber. She's going to share the heart of this community and the history that shaped it. Huge thanks to Lisa and to Heidi, also a Heidi P, but not the Heidi I traveled with, at Visit Glenwood for helping us set up this unforgettable girls' birthday getaway. If you're planning your own trip, visit Glenwood.com is your go-to source for everything Glenwood itineraries, resources, seasonal tips, and tools to build your own dream getaway. Because while Glenwood was the perfect setting for our girls' dream trip, you'll create your own version. Today we're sharing our experiences, the stories, the surprises, the moments that open something in us. And if you miss part one, you missed the foundation of this whole adventure centered around our stay at Glenwood Hot Springs. So be sure to listen to that one next. And we couldn't fit it all into this one either. So there's gonna be a part three. So stay tuned for that. But for now, let's open the door into the history of Glenwood Springs. Here's our conversation with Lisa Langer.

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So Walter Devereaux's vision was to create a resort, a world-class resort, that would bring wealthy people from not only the east, but from Europe. So that was his whole vision with this pool. So he actually had people come and reroute the Grand River, now the Colorado, around the hot spring, which is now called Yampa Hot Spring, meaning big medicine. The word Yampa and the Ute Native America. So then he built the pool first, and then five years later he opened the Hotel Colorado. It was called the Grand Dome of the Rockies. The town was called Glenwood Springs, then became the spa in the Rockies. The town because of the hot springs and this beautiful hotel. Yampa Vapor Caves was also part of that whole operation that Walter Deborah started. Okay. There were also vapor caves across the river on the south side of the river. Those have been closed now because of the railroad. But there are vapor caves over on that side of the river. But there were three, initially three vapor caves that people could go in.

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You heard about the amazing vapor caves we enjoyed at the Yampa Spa in our previous episode. C is for Colorado, part one of these adventures. But y'all, they have a totally different kind of caves experience in Glenwood Springs as well. The Glenwood Caverns Adventure Park. It offers walking tours into caves where you can see stunning stalactit and stalagmite formations. So included with your Fun Day Pass are the historic fairy cave tour and or what we took, the King's Row Tour. This one is a 40-minute walking tour of the most highly decorated cave, meaning it has the most stalactites and stalagmites and all of those fun creations that happen and naturally form in the cave. It's the most highly decorated cave room in Colorado. They also offer a wild cave tour or a black light cave tour, so you can ask about those as add-ons. Heidi and I loved our tour. Lisa is going to share a bit of the history around these caves with us, and then you'll hear a snippet from our tour provided by Matthew. He was such a great guide. So we just came out of the King's Row Cave Tour. Super amazing. We'll tell you about it in a minute. But one tour we did not have time for was the fairy caves.

SPEAKER_06: 7:19

Yeah. So the fairy caves were the original entrance, the original cave that the man who first owned it, which was Darrow, and then Peter Preble was the second owner. But the person who first owned it was looking for silver, had purchased the claim up here, looked around for silver, thought maybe he found it when he found the air coming out of this cave, entered the cave, realized it wasn't, you know, and there was no silver in here, but saw the the potential for a tourism attraction. And because the the hot springs had already started and you know there were tourists coming to town, he went ahead and opened that. Now people would come up here and they would come up by burrow along a really kind of windy road to get to the top. So there was no gondola to get up here. And people would wear long dresses. The women, you know, in that day were wearing long dresses. And this was the first caverns that was electrically lit in the entire country. Because we had electricity in Glenwood Springs before New York and Chicago had electric street lamps.

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Wow.

SPEAKER_06: 8:36

Because of our water and because of the hydroelectric. So that was great. So people would pay 50 cents to tour the fairy caves. They are not as highly decorated with stalactites and stalagmites and crystal formations as the King's Row. But people would come up because they wanted to see Edison light bulbs.

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Oh my god.

unknown: 9:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 9:03

So it was pretty cool. And they called them the fairy caves because the little girl, the daughter of the owner, she would go in and with with her father, and he had these coffee can type tin cans with holes in them, and you'd put a candle in it. And when you walked into the cave, it would throw the light up in little little fairy-looking. Yeah, so it looked like fairy lights. So she called it the fairy caves. Do they still do that? Do they make the lights? They show you. They show you. Yeah, in the fairy caves. It's cool. That's cool. So then when did they discover King's Row? Much later. In fact, the the second man who purchased the property um had like found the entrance into that barn. Okay. He went through the little that little seven or eight inch. Jam crack. Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah. And so he came through that, he saw that, but then the man who now owns it, Beckley, he was at School of Mines here in Colorado. Oh. And he was very interested in caving, loved to spelunk. And he for 10 years or so sent the guy letters wanting to come and explore the cave. Oh. And the guy returned them over and over and over, unopened. And finally, he opened one and said, Yes, you can come. So then he explored. Explored it, loved it, and said, I want to buy this. Wow. And so when he first bought it, it was just a cavern tour and a little, you know, place to have a little snack kind of thing. And then he was like, Wow, people are coming and they're like waiting in line for the caverns tours. I'd better do something. And so then he started adding rides. So the Alpine coaster was the first Alpine coaster in Colorado.

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The noise you're hearing, by the way, is us getting in and out of the gondola. So fun. And I think it's still the longest.

SPEAKER_06: 11:10

Great longest in Colorado. Yeah. Pretty cool.

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So this is the bottom of the steps. There's nowhere deeper under the earth. Go get to visit. So, folks, welcome to the bottom of the steps. If you are wondering where you ended up, right now you're 200 feet under the earth. You're almost directly beneath the gift shop. It's somewhere far above your head. Tell us why does folks fuck down here. As you look in front of you, there's over 3,000 formations that fill up the chamber. It's the most well-decorated cavern in our state. I'm gonna go through here and turn the lights up and down and show you all a few different features of the room. Okay. So we're gonna take a look down the deepest recess of the chamber. It marks a chamber 400 feet below. It's called paradise. Where we crawl down into paradise. You find to be a dead edge. So you can't go much deeper down from downside. And the gallery beyond is full of incredibly sharp crystals. They click the walls and floor, and they will preclude you from crawling deeper. Uh squish in there is like squishing into a pincushion. It's really dangerous. In the middle of the chamber, you'll see a castle of stones. And it will give our room its name and its theme. And that's the game of chess. So here in the center, you'll see that castle of rock. On the left and the right, the towers, the rooks that are the edge of a chest. In the middle is the bishop, the piece of the pointy hat that hangs out next to the king and queen. We'll spy them in just a moment, as I turn all the lights off. And with the room fully illuminated, you can easily see all the formations. All the 3,000 of them. And among them, the king and the queen are still in the most prominent that you can see today. The king is over to our left. There's a column of stone. A stalagmite and a stalactite grew together here. This took an incredible amount of time, thousands of years to have. Is it still changing? Like, is there still water? Yeah, as water drips down, it will grow slowly, right? So you see it's got a little bit of a machine to it, right? Above it, you'll see there's a spike of rock. The depth stone spike is the king's upside-down crown. That's why he gets to be the king today, just because of that. And his counterpart is the queen. And we'll see her on the other side of the chamber to our far right. The queen is the largest and oldest formation in the room. So she's resting at the edge of a precipice. Descends down, far out of your sight. You want to see just about the top part of her. The queen extends down 20 feet further. It does make her the oldest thing you'll get to see today. As water seeps down through the rock, it carries with it bits of decaying organic material. And that material will stick to the camera wall and react to UV light. I'm gonna turn the lights down, and as I do, you'll see the cave walls will emit a strange green glow. Something else you can do is if I get very close to the ceiling, I can charge the rock up. Oh, that's so cool. Oh my gosh, that's cool. So like I said, just a really weird bit of chemistry. Um, and this has no purpose whatsoever. This accidentally entertains people. Which ends the cavern is water. So as it seeps down through the rock, water's gonna build up stalactites above. So the water that seeps down through the ceiling, it takes over a month to make its way through the stone and splash into the room with you. There's a pathway that extends about 500 feet away. Were you to follow the path, you'd end up sinking down into a subterranean lake. The lake down there is not very big though. Only about 20 feet in diameter and uplift deep. The lake does contain its own ecosystem, though. There's bacteria that live in the lake that are found nowhere else in the world.

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Now, the Glenwood Caverns amusement park doesn't only have caves, it's a for real's amusement park on the top of a mountain. And you take a gondola up the mountain to get to it, and the gondola itself is its own fun adventure. Now, I enjoy amusement parks. I think they're fun. Rory can kind of take them or leave them, and the thought of an amusement park on top of a mountain seems really cool. So I wouldn't have necessarily chosen to go to a theme park on my vacation. I would assume I'd rather want a hike or something. But now that I've been, y'all, I tell you, this place is a must-do when you come to Glenwood Springs. Yes, there is a roller coaster on the top of a mountain. Talk about thrill. And that's cool. But y'all, they also have a just coaster. And I've really only known about like roller coasters. This one has no rolling or spinning, it just curves super fast down the mountain with an amazing view all around the entire time. So here's my conversation with Heidi after we exited the ride. Okay, how was it?

SPEAKER_04: 16:06

Oh my god, this is so fun. It was um very yeah. I mean, the great thing about it is you can control your speed. So if you want to go super fast, you can. And if you want to speak down a little bit, you can. It's pretty cold today, so it was a chilly ride, but um, there's some amazing turns and bumps, and I thought it was super fun.

SPEAKER_01: 16:32

I loved it. Like I was like, again, again, I want to go again. Yeah, I have never done anything like that. It was really, really fun. I was surprised that it's a self-driving device, a cart that you're on. It was so fun, and it slows you down on its own. Like you're not going full speed the whole entire time because it slows you down and catches you at certain points. Yeah, it was so crazy cool to be in charge of this cart that is on a track attached securely to the track, and you are super speeding down this mountain, going through little curves, beautiful view the whole entire time. You're catching the mountain during the whole ride down. I've never done anything like that. I wanted to go again, I could do that all day. Such a great way to get a view. And yes, like Heidi said, it was super cold. So my hands were a little chilly. I just have the little gloves that are very thin layer. So, our recommendation if you're here in the winter, definitely do it and bring your thicker gloves. It was so fun. And now it's time for your history lesson. We ran into other fun historic things today of the day that we're recording this. We took a hike up to Doc Holliday's graveyard. Right.

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So, so Doc Holliday was back in the 1880s. He well, he originally was a dentist, if you can believe that. And so I think he came upon some hard financial times and he ended up gambling a lot, but then he became a gunslinger, and you can read all kinds of stories of him. You know, when you think about the Wild West and some of the movies from the Wild West, totally can picture Doc Holliday. There's a store in town called a Western store called Bullocks. And if you go inside, you take the stairs down to the basement, and there's this whole Doc Holiday collection that you can see. His real name is John Henry Holliday. Anyway, he was you can see all the memorabilia from that day and read all the crazy stories. It's such a fun and really hard to read piece of history.

SPEAKER_01: 18:55

Quiet Earp was a good friend of his. Oh, yeah. At the display, there was a video of a gentleman like reenacting, narrating as he himself was Doc Holliday. And it was really fun to kind of just learn some of the history through him sharing. People come to see my grave all the time, you know. So he he was just kind of like sharing the story from Doc's perspective. So it was just kind of a neat rendition of that. They asked for a five-dollar donationslash admission to see the display. And probably my favorite part of that display was the dentist chair. Oh, yeah. Because, you know, he's a doc. He got his doctorate or in dentistry, but the the dentist chair, like just old school, and you know, where the levels were yeah, yeah. And there was a whole cast in section of like all of these bedazzled guns and their holsters.

SPEAKER_05: 19:54

So that building, Bullocks, used to be a hotel on that corner. And Doc Holliday, he was only in his 30s, but he got tuberculosis, and he ended up coming here for the last couple of years of his life, I guess. I was hoping that the waters would cure the tuberculosis. Right. So he was actually in that hotel when he died, and that's why now they have the museum that's in the basement. So we did end up getting to take the hike to go up to the cemetery. And I read some really interesting things about it. So initially, the cemetery was downtown, but I guess there was some kind of runoff that was making the graves really unstable. And I don't know, maybe they were afraid that some bodies would surface or something. So they ended up deciding to move all of the bodies and the tombstones up to this cemetery.

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Can you imagine that being your job?

SPEAKER_05: 20:51

I know. Yeah, there was a guy they called the scavenger, and he was the one from town that they assigned. He had to move the cemetery. And it's a heck of a hike up there, too. And it was real muddy too.

SPEAKER_01: 21:04

Okay, okay, okay, y'all. The people, the locals were like asking about this hike up to the go see where Doc Holiday's buried, and they're like, Oh, yeah, it's just a short little thing, you know. And we so we just thought we were having this short little hike, and it's an easy hike and whatever. Y'all, it was uphill, like pretty steep, I thought. And I was huffing and puffing the whole time. It wasn't like crazy.

SPEAKER_05: 21:31

It was pretty muddy and snowy too.

SPEAKER_01: 21:33

Yeah, today in January. So it depends when you when you're come to visit, but like it was not just a nice, easy little hike. That's just a little we just thought it would be like this little tiny stroll, but like it's a workout. It's a good hike. So that's good. And one thing, this is just a side note, but one thing about Glenwood Springs is you're you have all of these hot pools, you have a hike that heats up your body. You have a spa body wrap that heats up your body. You can have a fireplace in your room that heats up your body. My face is actually still red. And we were in a hot one. Because they have different temperatures. So we were in a higher temperature pool before we're recording this. But anyway, the hike definitely kept you from getting cold. So if you're here in the winter, those are good things to do.

SPEAKER_05: 22:25

And here's the funny thing when you get up to the cemetery, I knew this because I had read it. Yeah. But Doc Holiday, the tombstone actually in front of it, there's a sign that says Doc Holiday was buried someplace in this cemetery. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 22:43

They don't actually know. Right. It's just a memorial. You go see his memorial, but you don't see his grave stone.

SPEAKER_05: 22:50

And I don't know how I mean you think, goodness, how did that happen? There has to be a story behind it. It's kind of funny. You do this big hike and you think you're gonna be able to get a grave.

SPEAKER_01: 23:01

Yeah, you're not gonna see his grave. It's also probably been my first hike ever that resulted in the end of the hike. Instead of it being like this beautiful scenic overlook or something like that, you arrive at a graveyard. Yeah. Like that's the hike. You hike to a graveyard. So that like still kind of cool. Like sometimes cemeteries can have like a cool vibe. And this did this definitely had like character, just because it's a graveyard in the mountain woods area.

SPEAKER_05: 23:36

I have no idea the history and the famous people who have come to Glenwood Springs. One of the things we learned is that across the street, so we're at the 1888 hotel right now. Across the street is um the Glenwood Springs Lodge, Hot Springs Lodge. And then next to it is a hotel Colorado, which in Hotel Colorado, Theodore Roosevelt had a special room that was his room, and they called it they called it the second White House or something like that.

SPEAKER_01: 24:09

It acted as his White House when he would come to Colorado. And it's my understanding that they frequented, he frequented that and there's a bunch of pictures there.

SPEAKER_05: 24:19

He went on, he went hunt hunting. So I guess you can hunt bear around here. There's bear in the summertime. And then he gave a speech from one of the balconies of the hotel. What's his famous saying, Heidi? His famous saying because they asked if he would go, if he would swim in the hot spring pool here. And I, you know, of course it was for publicity. And he said, No, you know what? Bathing in public is not my strong suit.

SPEAKER_01: 24:54

I think that's so great.

SPEAKER_05: 24:56

So the unsinkable Molly Brown also stayed at Hotel Colorado. And the cool thing about that hotel is the interior of it, it looks still the architecture and everything still looks just like the old timey pictures that you see.

SPEAKER_01: 25:12

The lobby there is gorgeous, two giant fireplaces. It feels lodgy and cozy. As we entered the doors into the hallways of the Hotel Colorado, Lisa shared with me a few of the insights and stories about the famous people that are now in framed pictures along the walls. These famous people have visited the hotel and the city. And so Lisa's going to share a little bit more backstory.

SPEAKER_06: 25:37

So basically, Diamond Jack was in an opposite kind of gang or family, you know, whatever you want to call the gangster group. And so he would go across the street and go to the saloons and the gaming houses, and he got into a fight with somebody, and they went out onto the street, which is now Restaurant Row, 7th Street, and he they got into a gunfight and he shot a guy, and the guy later died. And so he was given an option. You can be incarcerated in Canyon City, Colorado, in the penitentiary there, or you can go leave the state and go back to Chicago. He went back to Chicago and very soon after was murdered up there. The most famous gangster, of course, that came here was Al Capone. And he came in with his friends and guys, and they would have parties here at the Hotel Colorado. They came on the train and they it would be when things were kind of heating up up in Chicago, you know, and so they would kind of lie low down here. So that was kind of one of the things. Lots of famous people came. Bill Cody, Bill Cody of Buffalo Bill Cody. And then, of course, the pictures here of um Walter Devereaux, who who built this facility, and the Mayo brothers came here. Of course, William Taft, President Taft, Theodore Roosevelt used this as his summer White House. There's a great photo of President Roosevelt on the balcony outside of the Roosevelt suite, overlooking the courtyard. And in the picture, there aren't any trees blocking his oration to the people in the courtyard, but now the trees are really huge in the courtyard, so it's pretty cool. But yeah, there are lots of neat, neat things. Oh, this is a cool one. Tom Mix was a famous silent movie actor. And he did a the K train robbery. Uh yes. And they filmed it in Glenwood Canyon. And he had a famous horse, a trick horse. And so he did all of his own stunts and everything. And they had to rob the train. And then, of course, we had Patrick Swayze here, the unsinkable Molly Brown. So we have lots of famous folk have visited and stayed at the Hotel Colorado over the years. So there's a story here. The legend, the Hotel Colorado's legend of the teddy bear, is that President Roosevelt came here on a hunting expedition. Okay. And he often would come here for hunting cougar, mountain lions, or bear. And this particular time, according to the legend of the Hotel Colorado, he didn't get a bear. And so he was disappointed. And the maids then made him a bear out of scrap material. And his daughter called it Teddy. That's the legend here.

SPEAKER_01: 28:43

And they now have stuffed teddy bears in their gift shop that are dressed to look like President Roosevelt, glasses and all. We heard a little bit more about those and the hotel's history from Layla, who helped us at the front desk.

SPEAKER_03: 28:54

The bear here that I think you're talking about is the Roosevelt bear, and they basically just made him the twin of the Teddy Roosevelt since he did stay here. During his time of presidency, he stayed here and used this as his White House on this side of the country. So he would come here in that Roosevelt room that we have. That's where he stayed in. And he has all of his iconic like pictures all in there. And he would give his speeches out on the balcony. This will tell you about the history and like during his time here. You'll also read about like Al Tapone and then uh Doc Holiday. They used to hide out here from the people looking for them. Okay. And then they built tunnels as well in our basements that like was an escape route for them to get out of here. Okay. Where they would get rated, where we would get rated for them. So yeah, I mean it talks about so much history. We were um a morgue during the World War II. Wow. And um, what else do they say? They used the basement as a jail at a point. There's just really so much history at this hotel. And we were actually the first hotel to have headlights in Cali in Colorado. We were the first to have electricity in Colorado. Wow. Okay. Back to 1893. That's why the Molly Brown sweet and they'll talk about her. She came after the Titanic and she stayed here. So they'd have it like the unseekable Molly Brown. So her room is still all decorated with her photos and how she had it, and her fine dining dishes are still in that realm. So it's really beautiful. It's fascinating. But she had tons of houses, so she didn't really live in there, but that was her like little apartment for when she did come to the hotel.

SPEAKER_01: 30:39

Wow. Now, both of those rooms, can you rent them out? You can stay in either room as a guest. Yes, you can. And I would assume that the pricing is higher for those.

SPEAKER_03: 30:48

You're gonna look at on the slow season around three, four hundred dollars for the Roosevelt during the week. Okay. On the weekends, you'll see it jump up from like five to seven hundred. Okay. For the Molly Brown on like a slow night or like a slow weekday or slow season. You could get it from anywhere from 500 to 700 or 800. And then like on weekends or holidays, they go up to a thousand. A thousand. Yeah. So she costs more than the president. Yeah, she costs more than the president. It's because up there you have two balconies. So you have the actual tower balcony and then you have like a separate balcony right there. But it's really cool.

SPEAKER_01: 31:22

Travel is about walking through doors and bringing travel home. It's about becoming someone who builds them. And someone who literally builds beautiful, creative, functional art is our friend, master blacksmith, and metal artist Skip Rawls of Mindscape Metalworks. Skip has over 30 years behind the forge, creating everything from custom doors and stair railings to sculptures, furniture and jewelry, working in bronze, copper, brass, stainless steel, carbon steel, aluminum, you name it. But what fascinates us the most isn't just what he builds, it's what those pieces mean. Because a door is never just a door. Skip, welcome. So, Skip, what about working at a now? Do you work at a forge? Is that the right thing to say?

SPEAKER_10: 32:11

My poison is metal.

SPEAKER_01: 32:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 32:13

Yeah, that's my poison. I I I always gotta get it really hot to shape it. I always like e even when like I'm not commissioned out, I want to play, I find myself at a fire.

SPEAKER_02: 32:23

A forge. It's incredibly hot. It's like even when it's 100 and something degrees outside, you still got a fire going that you're working in front of.

SPEAKER_10: 32:30

1800 degrees. 18 degrees. 1800, you can go up to 22. That's brutal.

SPEAKER_01: 32:35

It's not a year. That's like the temperature.

SPEAKER_10: 32:37

Right now.

SPEAKER_01: 32:38

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02: 32:39

Fahrenheit. The work you do is abusive. Yeah, it's beyond abusive. So why what after so many years, 30 years? What keeps you forty? Holy cow. What keeps you coming back to the fire?

SPEAKER_10: 32:51

You want the days, the hours, and minutes? Do you work with fire? It's it I I'm it I don't know. It's like I'm building scar tissue for the soul. I you're always burning yourself. I have white spots all over my body from metal. It's just, I don't know, you know, uh carpenters or splinters, right? That's part of the trade. It's just I people see it as romantic. It's not romantic. It's brutal. But every trait is brutal to it's some degree. Bigger than metal, the more force you have to apply, and that means muscle, and that means it just like in a day over 2,000 strikes. Easily agree. Bam, bam, bam. Same spot. Same little four-inch spot on the anvil, depending on the piece. You might have a system that you have to do a hundred of these particular shapes. They just don't grow into the shape. There's certain points within the material you have to work first. You don't start a book at the end, but the novelty of it's not wears off fast. No, it's not romantic anymore. I mean, I have wonderful days, especially when your ego strokes. It's something very pleasing. Then then when they hold the rose for a particular piece of material that you work, an artist, there's no conversation. You do a table and they they just sit at the table, you just deliver it and set up, and you know, and there's and there's they're they're taking it in and there's no words. You can't put a price tag on it. There's a point when you're down a rabbit hole, everything's working. Music's on, fire, everything's perfect. And and you're just creating. And I've learned over the years to now not think. Just just let go. Let the material tell me where it wants to go. Sure, you put yourself in there that you want to round that corner or something, or you want a little more detail, or or but but but having the ability of just letting it go is like the ultimate freedom. I don't think about doing it. I I let it flow. Anyway, that's that's great. That's well, it's not every artist.

SPEAKER_02: 34:55

Yeah, no, it's not. I mean, I you know, we're talking about doors and stuff, and I and art is a doorway. Uh sometimes doors separate, right? You build a door so you can close it and keep things out. But art is a doorway that you want to open. You're creating a door that is open so people can enter into something special. And so you spend this time, all this time, doing these things that move you, following the flow, everything you've just said, so that people can somehow through that walk through that doorway that you've created and experience something that maybe they've never experienced before. Maybe something that'll move them into a new place in life, even. Exactly.

SPEAKER_10: 35:35

And that's that's that's why it's a table. You know, a door does what? It it it's welcoming, family and friends and loved ones. Christmas, you got the wreath around the door, maybe some mistletoe. I mean, uh these are Western fond memories I grew up with. You know, and then but also could be what, you know, uh an eviction sticker on a door. A door is a symbol that how many times do we get indoors every day? Automobile doors, bathroom door, right? So you know, to have something that's static but open at the same time, a table. And what are you doing at a table? Gathering. And what was it? I mean, Frank Lloyd, right, I I I'm just in love with Frank Lloyd, right, his philosophy. He you look at some of his work as gorgeous tables. You look at you look at the the the the height of the chairs at the tables that your head, you know, these are just comfortable chairs, your your head is here and the top of the chair is here. Why? Because when it's together and family's together, you're encapsulated in forced conversation. You know? You're you're you're like in this protective cocoon that the family explores life, conversation. I mean, we don't do that today. You know, you get a five-year-old laptop and like she's streaming on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02: 36:58

What's ironic is the TV shows that people are drawn and gravitate towards are those that have people gathering in those situations. Oftentimes you see these smash hits. It's where friends, right? For example, way back in the day, it was a huge hit because they gathered together as friends. It was this synergy, having these conversations, these gatherings, like the whole Frank Lloyd Wright thing. So this this door suddenly that you have is turning into a table. So it's not only something someone can walk through, yeah, but it's something that they can gather around now and experience this thing together and not just individually anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 37:33

Now you guys are talking as if assumed the audience they know what you're talking about. So what are y'all talking about?

SPEAKER_02: 37:39

Come on. Well, we can clue them in, I guess.

SPEAKER_01: 37:41

Okay, clue them in.

SPEAKER_10: 37:42

All right.

SPEAKER_01: 37:43

What are you working on right now?

SPEAKER_10: 37:45

What am I working on? The door that's becoming a table. Yeah. Doors becoming a table. Clients brought a door in. Wasn't very good condition, but I don't know the complete history, still exploring it, but it's a pretty cool door. Heavy, dense, dense, dense, oak, heavy, heavy, but very fragile. And over the years the door was probably used, probably for another table, and and and then whoever was putting this table in their home, right, probably with love attempted to secure it. Well, it came to me just it wasn't much of a door. So we rebuilt the door and shaped it into a table, which the door looks like a table, and then made some very interesting fastening hardware. And legs are going to be different than that they're not four legs, they're offset legs, which gives it the first impression that that's going to fall over. I I like I like doing work that like you have to think, like if I was to see your work, you know, how how did you do that? And maybe when it's done and there's no words and you're looking at it, they're looking at the client's looking at a piece, and you you can't put a price tag on that. Yeah. But usually have to eat. So, you know, be kind to your artists.

SPEAKER_01: 38:56

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02: 38:58

Feed your art.

SPEAKER_01: 38:59

So this door you're making, you mentioned that you have like hardware and things that you're adding. So the wood itself is I mean, the door itself is wood, correct? And then what what pieces of metal are you using around the table?

SPEAKER_10: 39:12

We wrapped the whole table and uh made a band.

SPEAKER_01: 39:15

In steel. Steel. Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 39:17

Three sixteenths quarter inch uh flat bar. Uh then we made hand rivets. We make the rivets and then we extend the rivets out and make the end of the rivet five inches long. So it sort of looks like an old school nail, a cut nail as you work, right? And make a tool and then we put strations on it. So anyway, we we we drive that through the uh band around the table five inches in. So you've got a 45 horizontal, basically, little pieces of steel going on the table for support.

SPEAKER_08: 39:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 39:48

So you're physically being news in. Yeah. Old school.

SPEAKER_02: 39:51

Deb, I love that because it's it's think about this, it's preserving everything that we've talked about, the doorway and walking through the door into what you're experiencing through the art, and then this art becoming a piece around which people will gather, and you're doing something to preserve that and make it stronger. That's I mean, that's pretty that's a pretty strong statement. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 40:12

I agreed, agreed, agreed. From a layman. I went to the layman and say, I I want it. I don't know what it is. I bought it, but I I need it. Yeah. Totally. I need it now.

SPEAKER_01: 40:23

Right, right.

SPEAKER_10: 40:23

And my phone number is.

SPEAKER_01: 40:25

Right. Which we will provide at the end. By the way. You just recently worked on a six, what, six thousand pounds?

SPEAKER_10: 40:33

Yeah, six thousand three ton. It was uh a uh a linear uh bust of Professor Carver. Put it in last weekend, I believe it was. Yeah, installed it ahead. Last weekend was as part of the uh complete system of Carver Elementary School. Commissioned me to do something in their atria uh indoors. So six months of development and me um it ended up uh 40 feet long, 16 feet high. Did it's like my homage, my homage to to Professor Carver. What's his full name? George George Carver. Professor Carver. If I could be half the man, what he did. He has this every picture I have of him has this this look of peace. This this you can see it in a photo, peace. Yeah, nice like grounded, like how how do you capture that's big piece? You can talk about it, you can read about it, but how like I believe I capture a man's piece. I want a piece of that piece while I did the piece.

unknown: 41:32

Right.

SPEAKER_09: 41:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 41:38

Wow. I'm 72. I I I feel 18. I'm still I'm still cocky. I still I just like I have this this this I know art, i it's not a job for me. It's it's a lifestyle. There's there's just I wake sometimes all nights in the studio just being what what I am. I it it's it's it's no big deal really. It's just flip-flops, you know. I I've sometimes in summer I forge a lot in flip-flops. Shorts and flip-flops. And you know. It's a form of peace. Or or it's not just business. You're you're putting these shapes down and like it's all material. You know, everything's alive. You know, and those why are you an artist? Why are you an artist? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 42:24

I told my friend the other day I can't not be.

SPEAKER_10: 42:26

Oh, yeah, but when you know when when did you know you were an artist? You know, that I'm often asked that that question, like I I think I always was. When I grew up, it the the support issues were different. They weren't nurturing, they were more survival. I grew up on a farm in Fitman, New Jersey, and but that gave me the core fiber. I hated what I did, but it gave me the fiber that keep going, that that go-to stay tuitiveness, right? And there's always scrap piles on the farm, the metal and stuff, and things always break down. And farmers are traditionally bail wire it together till we have money. Right. You know, just just get it so you you learn very early. Make it run, Skip, make it run. And you learn very early.

SPEAKER_01: 43:11

You don't have to be like a career artist person to tap into that creativity. Like take a class or take a trip where you can go on a trip just to learn from a blacksmith for a week. Or, you know, like oh, that's a brutal truth. They have but there are tons of ways that you can get away and either give your spirit kind of a boost so that you can come home back to your creative grind, and or find those places where you can escape and learn something creative and dive into something that maybe you're curious about. Do a little intensive class for a week and learn about and just have fun with it.

SPEAKER_02: 43:51

Well, I'd say book your vacation now for Skipley Rawls Creative Vacation Adventures.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

So Skip does not offer those. Well that's but maybe we'll talk him into it.

SPEAKER_10: 44:12

I've had acquaintances become friends where they drive across uh states and with their camper on their truck and spend a week.

SPEAKER_09: 44:19

Hmm.

SPEAKER_10: 44:20

I could see that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, they're it that that's you know, that's enjoyable. You have to realize because I failed so much in my life. I I've learned to realize that failure is not a failure. Oh, it is. I mean it's it's but it's more of a road sign.

SPEAKER_08: 44:37

Right.

SPEAKER_10: 44:38

Telling you where to go and where not to go. You know, so failure is I I just look at it as I I try not to fail. I make mistakes all the time. All the time. But I'm constantly pushing the envelope. And that's the exciting part.

SPEAKER_08: 44:50

Right.

SPEAKER_10: 44:51

Pushing the envelope, like some of this old material never dreamt of be born to turn into something like this. I mean I know the material. I mean, sometimes material falks sometimes. Sometimes it just like it flows. It just like some just doesn't want to be forced into something it doesn't want to be. And it and and and and it just is is it's a struggle. It's fighting you.

SPEAKER_02: 45:16

Yeah, yeah. It's interesting because it's as though you're walking up to bring it back to our door thing. It's as though you're walking up to all these different doors, you're trying to open them, and the one that opens is the one that that particular piece of metal you were just talking about. You flow right through that door. Sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes it doesn't fit. Yeah, and you could and it's so cool when those doors happen, the things that you discover through them, like emotionally, and some things you can't even put words to, and that other people, because that was the door that was open and that you flow through, they experience those uh amazing things as well through your art.

SPEAKER_10: 45:51

Uh it's uh you know Well, it's wonderful as an artist to share time with other artists. Yeah, uh that synergy. Yeah, that is so important to me.

SPEAKER_01: 46:01

Well, what else is going on in your studio? You're working on this door that's becoming a table.

SPEAKER_10: 46:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:06

What else is going on in here? And what types of projects can people commission you for?

SPEAKER_10: 46:12

Well, they can they can commission me. We start the conversation or, you know, an email or something, and kind of, you know, what what's your idea? What what are you thinking? And you know, and client that wants to explore, say, a 20-person dining room table to a four-person. I mean, I love furniture, uh any type of furniture, but I need your input what you want as far as furniture.

SPEAKER_08: 46:34

Right.

SPEAKER_10: 46:35

Sculptures, kinetic, and you know, moving and static.

SPEAKER_08: 46:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 46:39

Jewelry, when time permits. Jewelry normally is a fill-in for me, as roses are. Anything artistic.

SPEAKER_08: 46:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_10: 46:47

Uh you want armor? I'll I'll build you custom armor for Halloween. Uh you you tell me what you want.

SPEAKER_08: 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 46:54

And we'll discuss it and we'll put a price tag and if it meets your budget and I can perform within your budget. Uh and for you, scale is actually something you love. Oh, I love scale. So I I I love big. I I you know, you you you if you're looking for something, you know, 50, 60, 70 foot sculpture, I oh, that's that's where I I I think I flower in concept. Uh recently I have uh see there's uh a large school here by the name of uh Baylor redoing the Mayborn Museum I commissioned to do three pieces for them, which two are done, and uh third is now at that kind of concept you share with me and through a couple reference snaps. Now I developed a concept that can be scaled to any size concepts, two feet high, foot and a half wide, a linear concept. Reality is that that first sight of a shape, a three-dimensional shape, right? You either get it or you don't. And if you get it, uh perfect, then then it's simply uh we'll we'll go up on size or whatever. And you know, if not, then I do another concept. Try and capture what you think you want. But if it's accepted, then we can move on. I produce numbers and a professional proposal for you and uh delivery date and so forth, and here we go. And you you're asking me where I can be reached?

SPEAKER_08: 48:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_10: 48:10

Oh, I'm in Waco presently in a studio. My my company is called Mindscape Metalworks.

unknown: 48:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 48:17

Mind. Mindscape. M-I-N-D-S-C-A-P-E. Metal metalworks.com.

SPEAKER_10: 48:24

Art is my uh art is my uh website.art uh or at gmail.com. Okay.

SPEAKER_01: 48:34

We will put those in the show notes so that people can access that and find you. What if they don't live in Waco?

SPEAKER_10: 48:41

No problem. I ship internationally.

SPEAKER_01: 48:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 48:43

Yeah, yeah, I work overseas.

SPEAKER_01: 48:46

Good. We have some international listeners here, so yeah, you spend a lot of time working overseas.

SPEAKER_10: 48:50

Yeah, don't, don't uh, you know, should you meet me and reach out. I uh I I'd love that, but don't uh this uh little cast we're doing is because uh these two are friends and they think that I need exposure. So now I'm calling them mom and dad. And uh Yeah, we'll we'll just uh we'll produce something breathtaking as a team. You know, it's a collaboration between the the client and the artists, and and it it's interesting, all my big work, larger scale, and of course a little more money than normal.

SPEAKER_01: 49:22

Right. Um from the corporations and schools and education.

SPEAKER_10: 49:26

I I uh private eight eighty percent of all my work over forty-five years, uh all all my show pieces are in private collections.

SPEAKER_08: 49:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_10: 49:34

You know, with they don't want to be known.

SPEAKER_08: 49:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 49:38

Yeah. You know, it's it's very tickling to the soul when Christmas you get a card from somebody maybe eight years ago. You sell the piece to, and it's like and and uh they take a picture of the family, and there's the table around the dining room table you built for them.

SPEAKER_09: 49:54

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_10: 49:55

And so you're still in memory, which is it it's not often, but when it happens, it's like yeah, this is what it's all about, man. Yeah, yeah, that's totally cool.

SPEAKER_01: 50:03

Very good.

SPEAKER_10: 50:03

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:05

Bringing people together, which we'll be talking about when our G episode.

SPEAKER_02: 50:09

Gee, when's that gonna come?

SPEAKER_01: 50:11

Well, it'll come after E F.

SPEAKER_02: 50:14

Gee, isn't that exciting? G whiz. Gee, can I come? I'm gonna bring Gollum. Oh, good G. Nice use of the G there. Gollum, and that's from Gandalf bringing Gollum. Oh. And I no longer have a gorgeous woman. Oh, yes, a gorgeous girl. Gorgeous girl.

SPEAKER_10: 50:36

We'll stick with the G. Come on. Double G. Uh-huh. Alliteration.

SPEAKER_08: 50:41

I wanted to.

SPEAKER_10: 50:42

Well, can I put on now the Gorgarian chants? Or the Gregorian, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 50:48

Our G episode's gonna be a long one. So as Rory and I are renovating our home and thinking about what are we gonna do after it's like the walls are intact and they're painted, and then we get to that decorating phase and stuff like that, like thinking about having a a unique piece that's unique to us, tells our story, like something like that could be really cool in a home. Um, and you know, so like it's really cool that you could call Skip and say, Hey, we have this wall, we have this space, we have this area. We could put in something that's unique and creative to us that tells our story. And that would mean so much more than all and all of these little knick-knacks that you can buy to like try to fill a space. Yeah. But they're not gonna really give you that sense of home and belonging like a piece of art like this. So I just love that you can do so many different things, Skip, and like bring that to the table of different materials and different aesthetic, and that you work with the client. So it's it's something that you create, but they you create with them. And and to me, that's that's like a fun part of the whole process.

SPEAKER_10: 52:07

Oh, it is. And our everything is seamless. I mean, I everything is from proposal and then the backing. I mean I see drawings issue for construction drawings on anything and everything. But it's not a new house. It it it it it's more specialty type staircases, spiral staircases. I mean, uh a staircase and you want a sliding board on the side of the staircase from three stories. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just think out of the box, wine cellars. I mean, uh so I have a team that, you know, when I I get into something and the client wants something else, I try and keep it in-house, you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_08: 52:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 52:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it anything you can think of. I was thinking of, then send a little sketch or something, you know. It's gonna be email or eventually telephone, or you're in Waco and you want to see the Chip and Joanna silos stop by, you know what I mean. That's that's a big draw in Waco, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. And uh I got parking for a hundred cars. Uh semis come in, pick up and deliver, and uh that I'm uh I'm hidden, which is very nice and reclusive. It's wonderful to be at a point in your career that you can pick the work you want to accept.

SPEAKER_08: 53:12

Right.

SPEAKER_10: 53:13

You know what I mean? Yes.

SPEAKER_08: 53:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10: 53:15

So I'm here. Let's get something funky going. One row let's do your estate door and gates or awnings, uh traditional uh copper awnings. Uh let's uh or let's let's just do beautiful traditional copper drainage on your estate. I mean old school. Yeah, yeah. Man, that's gorgeous stuff. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 53:39

Love it. Okay, I'm so inspired.

SPEAKER_10: 53:42

All right.

SPEAKER_01: 53:43

Thank you, Skip.

SPEAKER_10: 53:44

Oh, it's been my pleasure. When when's uh supper again?

SPEAKER_02: 53:49

Yeah. I've got some steaks that uh I've gotta take out with all because you know Mary to a vegetarian.

SPEAKER_10: 53:54

Steaks were uh uh roast. Either one. Bring that roast over. We'll cut it in smaller pieces to fit in a crock pot on the big band saw.

SPEAKER_02: 54:06

The last one I cooked, we needed the band saw to cut it up after it was cooked.

SPEAKER_01: 54:11

Yeah, true. Y'all, there was so much more we discussed with Skip, and we might be able to share that down the road, but he has such creativity and inspiration, and we love bringing that creativity into our daily lives and not only into our art as musicians, but just into our everyday. And so travel is where Rory and I find most of our inspiration, which is why we do this podcast, because we hope to inspire you with what inspires us. And we want to bring that creativity into not only our home, but also to your home. And so before we wrap up this episode on doors, we want to just get a little practical. And, you know, doors can symbolize opportunity, welcome. And what does your front door say right now? The door that you enter every day. What does that say? What does the door to your bedroom say? Your doorway sets the tone for the room that you're entering. So I just want to throw out a few simple ways to think about your doors and your entryways. How can we make them more welcoming? So, first of all, number one, clear the path. So we need an uncluttered entrance. So maybe you need to sweep the porch or remove some dead plants or clear the shoes and Amazon boxes in the random clutter. If you have things that need to go into the car as errands, go ahead and get them into the car. Make sure the door fully opens without hitting anything. So when we clear that path, it subconsciously says to visitors and to ourselves, you're welcome here. And then you can make the door itself feel intentional. Maybe a fresh coat of paint or polish the hardware, dust off the cobwebs, replace a tired doormat, upgrade your house numbers, maybe add a seasonal wreath or simple greenery. It doesn't have to be expensive. It just has to look cared for. And then light can matter more than decor. I've seen Amazon ads lately, you know, leave the light on at night for your Amazon drivers. Soft light near a doorway, you could do things like lanterns or warm bulbs instead of harsh light, maybe candles inside an entry table. Light can reflect safety, it says warmth, it says come in. And then another thing you can do around a door or doorway is add something living. So plants can do that. They can soften a threshold, maybe some potted herbs or ferns or simple olive tree, or even a bowl of fresh lemons when you walk in. Living things can signal vitality. And then as you enter the home, you can create a little pause point, maybe a bench, a small table, a place to set your keys, a bowl for mail, a mirror to check yourself before heading out, maybe some hooks. Doorways shouldn't feel rushed. They should feel intentional. And then, of course, as the seasons change and we get into holiday vibes, you don't need a full Pinterest explosion. You can just little small swaps in the spring, do some green orange florals. Summer, you could do some woven textures, citrus, light colors. Falls, you've got your mums, your warm tones, your lanterns. Winter, you've got your evergreens, your subtle lights. So let the space space breathe. And one little focal piece can be enough. And then there's the invisible layer. And that is before guests arrive, as you welcome visitors, open the door with a smile. Maybe play some soft music, maybe simmer some citrus at cloves, or maybe if you have some essential oil diffuser or baked cookies, even those pre-made kind. A good smell at the doorway is always like it changes the emotional temperature for the home and can say welcome. And I know for me, I am always wanting to work on becoming just a welcoming person in my life, that my demeanor and my character says, Hey, welcome. Come have a conversation with me. D is for doors isn't just about the ones we walk through in Glenwood Springs. It's also about the kind of welcome that you create. It's kind the kind of threshold that you are becoming and that we're all becoming. We can allow our doorways to reflect the way that we live our lives. And we encourage you to walk through brand new doors this week. What's a new doorway you're gonna walk through just this week? Reflect on that, take action, move forward, be creative, and we will see you on the next one, which will be part three of Glenwood Springs, because y'all, there's so much to do there. So we're gonna wrap all of that up. And again, visit Glenwood.com is where you can go to find all things. Visit Glenwood Springs. We hope we've inspired you this episode.

SPEAKER_02: 59:08

So join us next time.

SPEAKER_01: 59:09

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SPEAKER_02: 59:12

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SPEAKER_01: 59:14

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SPEAKER_02: 59:17

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SPEAKER_01: 59:28

At www.theromies.com.

SPEAKER_02: 59:31

That's right, that's T H E.

SPEAKER_01: 59:33

R-O-A-M I-E-S.com. We'll be there until next time. Yeah, thanks for listening. Bye.